Note: This is part of the Leveller Collection of Tracts and Pamphlets.
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T.172 [1648.12] (5.30) [Several Hands], The Whitehall Debates (14 Dec., 1648 - 13 Jan., 1649).
[Several Hands], "The Whitehall Debates", The General Council of Officers at Whitehall.
This text contains the following sections:
14 December, 1648 - 13 January, 1649.
Not listed in TT.
Whether the Magistrate have or ought to have any compulsive and restrictive power in matters of religion.
Adjourned till Saturday at noone to proceede upon the other parte of the Agreement, waiving [?] this first reserve.
The Generall Councell is to meete tomorrow at one in the afternoone in relation to justice.
The Generall Councell is to meete Munday for further proceeding in matter of this dayes debate. Left to the Committee, in relation to the thinges formerly referred concerning the Agreement, to meete tomorrow here or elsewhere in the Cittie to discusse.
Question. Whether to have any reserve to except religious thinges, or only to give power in naturall and civill thinges, and to say nothing of religion?
(1) That those who are of opinion in the affirmative begin (if they will) to lay downe the grounds.
(2) That the discussion be alternate, vizt. that when one hath reasoned for the affirmative, the next admitted to speake be such as will speake for the negative, and after one hath spoke for the negative, the next admitted to speake bee for the affirmative.
(3) That if none arguing in the affirmative give grounds for a compulsive power, then none in the negative to speake against any other then the restrictive power.
|Col. Rich.||Mr. Taylor.|
|Col. Deane.||Mr. Collier.|
|Mr. Wildman.||Capt. Clarke.|
|Mr. John Goodwin.|
To meete at Col. Titchburne's tomorrow at 4 of the clocke in the afternoone with
|Mr. Calamy.||Mr. Marshall.|
|Mr. Ashe.||Mr. Nye.|
|Mr. Seaman.||Mr. Russell|
|Mr. Burges.||Mr. Ayres.|
|Mr. Cordwell.||Mr. Brinsley.|
About the particulars this day debated.a
Lo: Generall Fairfax. etc.a
The first Reserve as in relation to matters of Religion, read.b
Whether the Civill Magistrate had a power given him from God?
How farre the Civill Magistrate had power from God?
The law is, that what a man would have done to himself hee may doe to another, and that according to that rule hee did nott undestand the Magistrate to have power.
Offers to consideration, that God hath nott invested any power in a Civill Magistrate in matters of religion; and I thinke if hee had hee might more properly bee called an Ecclesiasticall or Church Officer then a Civill; for denominations are given from those [things] that are most considerable in an office. There is noe difference in that. That the Magistrate hath [not] in any way a concession from God for punishing any man for going alonge with his conscience, I conceive that is nott necessary to bee argued uppon.
That I suppose is [necessary to be argued upon is], whether itt bee proper or conducing to your ends, whether it bee like to be of good resentment of the wisest or generality of the people, that a businesse of this nature should bee of your cognizance, itt being that which hath taken uppe the best witts to determine whether the Magistrate hath power in matter of religion or noe, yett itt being a matter of that profound and deepe disputation as men have made itt, whether it will bee a matter appropriate to the cognizance of you to interpose to determine, and to decide a question which hath bin the great exercise of the learning, and witts, and judgement of the world. And I conceive though there bee reasons uppon reasons of very great weight, commanding why itt should bee inserted—Certainly if soe bee the inserting of itt could carry itt, if itt could obtaine and bee likely to prevaile in the kingdome I thinke itt would blesse the Nation with abundance of peace, and [be] the preventing of many inconveniences, and troubles, and heart burninges that are like to arise. Butt inasmuch as I doe nott apprehend that itt is a matter proper for you to take notice of [or] to intermeddle in, itt being a matter of conscience and matter of religion, whether you will, you must doe itt either  then as Magistrates, and then you goe against your owne principles, you doe assume and interpose in matters of religion. If itt bee noe matter of conscience, butt only matter of civill right, itt will fall into those Articles which concerne the civill power of the Magistrate.
Every poore man [that] does understand what hee does, and is willing that the commonwealth should flourish, hath as reall an hand heere as the greatest Divine,a and all devinity you have had from reading, if you had as many degrees of time since the creation, learning is butt the tradition of men. Hee is properly concern'd and as one of England, and therefore [hath a right] to know whether you give him any power or noe.
Those men that are religious they are those men that has the greatest spiritts and fittest for publique service, and to have religion given under the hand of a Magistrate or two, and all the noble spiritts of the poore to turne them out of the Commonwealth—Therefore iff wee doe honour the Commonwealth of England, itt is best to lett them bee free, that they bee nott banished or injured for matters of Conscience, butt that they may enjoy the Commonwealth.
I suppose the difference is concerning the Stating of the Question. For what that learned Gentleman was pleas'd to say  whether itt were proper for this Councill to conceive whether itt were matter of conscience. Through the judgment of God uppon the Nation all aucthority hath bin broken to pieces. Att least itt hath bin our misery that itt hath bin uncertaine whether the supreame aucthority hath bin [here or there], that none have knowne where the aucthority of the Magistrate is, or [how far] his office [extends]. For the remedy of this your Excellency hath thought fitt to propound a new way of setling this Nation, which is a new constitution. Your Excellency thinkes itt that itt can bee noe other way for to governe the people then this way.
And though this Agreement were resolved heere—The Question is now what power the people will agree to give to the Magistrates that they will sett over them to bee their Governours. Now the great misery of our Nation hath bin the Magistrates trust nott being knowne.a Now wee being about setling the supreame power I thinke itt is [necessary] clearly to declare what this power is; therefore I thinke the question will bee, [firstly], whether wee shall intrust the Magistrate in matters of religion or nott? [secondly], whether itt bee necessary to expressb itt or nott?
That then the question must bee thus:
Whether itt bee necessary that after wee have had a Warre for power, to shew what power wee doe give them, and what nott? and I desire that the Question may bee stated: whether itt is  necessary clearly to expresse in this Constitution, whether to intrust the Magistrate in matters of religion or nott, whether itt bee necessary to expresse itt or nott?
Noe man hath said that in this Agreement nothing hath bin [granted to the magistrate, save that which hath been] exprest. The maine thinge is nott whether heea should bee intrusted, butt what should bee reserved. I thinke that's sufficient. For to trust them, if they have a power in themselves either to binde or nott to binde, I thinke that will bee a thinge questionable still. For that's doubted by many whether the people can tie uppe themselves to any particular measure of their obedience. Now if soe, if they have nott this power in themselves, then for them to say they reserve itt from others which they have nott themselves—
I thinke the greatest cause of the lengthning of the Debate is the mistake of the Question in hand, and I have heard difference in opinion severall [times?] about the Question. As to that the Gentleman that spoke last asserted, I referre itt to your Excellency that whether or noe the [not] empowering the civill Magistrate does nott reserve itt. If wee did not give him this power expresly, implyedlie hee has it not, and therefore to consider whether itt bee a necessary reserve.b If itt bee a reserve that concernes the conscience of any of those faithfull freinds that have gone alonge with your Excellency, and this is a reserve that does nott concerne us butt them. . . . . Even for that I referre itt to your Excellency, whether itt ought nott to bee inserted?
Butt as to the equity and reason of the thinge, whether hee hath this from God, or whether hee can have itt, that is soe cleare that  noe man will argue for itt. That [the question] is, whether the Civill Magistrate hath power to bee exercis'd uppon the outward man for civill thinges. It has bin said wee may intrust the Civill Magistrate with our lives and our estates, butt to intrust the Civill Magistrate with a compulsive power for religious ends does implicitely signify, that wee will submitt to such a power. Now the question is [not] whether wee can impower him over our consciences; it's impossible. Butt this is that which sticks with mee, whether wee ought to countenance the Magistrate, much lesse give him a power over the persons of men, for doing or nott doing religious thinges according to his judgement.
To my understanding [in] all that hath bin said to reach this businesse that which hath bin principally aimed att [is] to state the Question. According to [the] Commissary Generall's first stating of itt, [it] is this. That seing there hath bin a great warre about breach of trust (and that unlimited trust), and seing wee are now about to [seek a way to] avoide those miseries that hitherto have hapned, I conceive the substance of the Question will bee this: whether itt bee necessary to represent the trust that is reposed in the Magistrates. That I conceive that is the principall thinge that will reach our end. Whether itt bee requisite to expresse their trust positively in this Agreement, yea or noe?
I have heard soe many thinges and soe many mistakes that itt makes mee thinke of some other method, and that is to finde out the persons of the severall opinions that are started amongst us, that [they] may apply themselves to answer [each other]. Nott many to speake together of one parte, and that which they have said goe without answer; butt imediatelie as one hath spoken any thinge of one  parte that itt may bee answer'd of the other parte. Otherwise wee shall, as farre as my reason goes, perplex ourselves and all that heare us.a
My memory is nott able to reach to those many mistakes that I have found in the Debate hitherto, butt I'le speake a worde to the last because itt is very materiall. I perceive by this Gentleman that the foundation of the necessity—the ground of the necessityb—[of] the determination of this point now, is fix't uppon this: that wee have had warres and troubles in the Nation, and that hath bin for want of ascertayning the power in which men should have acquies'd in the Nation, and for that men have nott knowne where to acquiesce. If the meaning of this bee, that itt hath bin for want of knowing what power Magistracie hath had, I must needes say that itt hath bin a cleare mistake [to say] that this was the ground of the warres. The grounds have bin these: That wheras itt is well and generally knowne what is the matter of the supreame trust (that is all thinges necessary for the preserving of peace) [it is not so well known] what is the end of civill societie and Commonwealthes. If I did looke att libertie [alone] I would minde noe such thinge [as a Commonwealth]; for then I am most free when I have noebody to minde mee. Nor doe I finde anythinge else that's imediately necessary, nott [as the cause] of making any power amongst men, butc the preserving of humane society in peace. Butt withall to looke att such a trust. That you comitt the trust to persons for the preserving of peace that they may use it in such a way as may bee most suitable in civill societie, that are most probable and hopefull for [preserving] libertie, and nott [like] to make us slaves, as itt may bee most hopefull for common and equall right amonge us, as may be most hopefull to provide for the prosperitie and flourishing state of the nation. That the necessary thinge, that which necessarily leads all men into civill agreements or contracts, or to make Commonwealthes, is the necessity of itt for preserving peace. Because otherwise, if  there were noe such thinge, butt every man [were] left to his owne will, mens contrary wills, lusts, and passions would lead every one to the destruction of another, and [everyone] to seeke all the wayes of fencing himself against the jealousies of another.
That which hath occasioned the warre in this Nation, and that which hath occasioned the controversies heretofore is,a nott the nott knowing what the limitations are, or of what [nature] the supreame trust is, butt that wee have nott knowne in what persons, or what parties, or what councill the trust hath layne. The Kinge hee hath claim'd itt as his right, as in the case of Shippe Monie, butt the people thought they had another right then. There was a Parliament called, and itt was then cleare and undenied; the Kinge could nott deny itt—that itt was the right of the kingdome that they should nott bee bound and concluded, butt by common consent of their deputies or Representatives in Parliament. Itt [not] being thus farre made cleare where the supreame trust did lie, thus much was cleare, that the kinge could nott doe anythinge alone. Then hee insists uppon itt, that the Parliament could nott doe any thinge without him. This was the difference, because they did assume to doe somethinge without him which they thought necessary for the safetie of the Kingedome. Soe that the ground of the warre was nott difference in what the supreame Magistracie [was, but] whether [it was] in the Kinge alone.b Now wee are all that are heere I suppose unanimous, that this bone of contention should bee taken away, that itt should bee determined in what persons or succession of persons the supreame trust doth lie. With us the Question is, what kinde of power wee should committ with those that have the supreame trust. Since itt is cleare in this question itt is nott intended [to determine] whether wee shall committ [to them] a trust of our judgements or consciences, the question is whether wee should give a trust to them for the outward man, and with  acquiescence butt for peace-sake. That all civill power whatsoever, neither in naturall or civill thinges, is nott [able] to binde men's judgements. The judgement of the Parliament [which] is the supreamest Councill in the World, cannott binde my judgement in any thinge. [Whatever power you give the magistrate], whether you limitt itt to civill thinges or naturall thinges, the effect of that power is that hee hath nott power to conclude your inward, butt your outward man [only]; the effect of all is butt the placing of a power in which wee would acquiesce for peace sake.a Take that for granted then. To come to consider whether as to the proceeding to the outward man, and our acquiesce[nce] unto him for peace-sake, itt bee fitt for us to committ a trust to the civill Magistrate for this purpose, concerning spirituall thinges as concerning civill thinges.
Now the ground [of the dispute] is this. There are two pretences of Conscience. There are many men who doe claime a right to the Civill Commonwealth with you, and have nott forfeited that right. They say "Though wee thinke itt bee in your power to determine who shall bee the supreame Magistrate, butt that being determined there is somethinge of Divine Institution that does tell him what is his duty to doe, gives him rules in point of acting betweene man and man, in civill thinges hee ought to have regard to that right. 2dly They say, that that same word or witnesse of God left to us, which gives him directions in this case in civill thinges, [which tells him] what is right and what is wronge, and soe must bee the guide of his judgement—that same does tell him, that in some thinges [that concern religion] hee ought to restraine. This is truly the pretence of conscience on one parte.
That which is said against this. First, many men doe nott beleive that there is by the word of God, by the Scripture, any such direction, or power, or duty laid uppon the Magistrate, that hee should exercise any such power in thinges that concerne religion. They differre in that point. Secondly, they say: "Though itt were soe, to your satisfaction that are of that opinion, yett wee  being nott satisfied that wee ought to thinke soe, itt is nott fitt for us to committ a power to him which God hath nott intrusted him withall." That's the argument. For otherwise itt would follow, that if there bee a pretence of conscience, and some probable grounds and reasons on the one side, that the Magistrate should nott bee bound in matters of religion, butt that hee may exercise this power in this case. When wee are uppon the businesse or uppon agreement itt will bee necessary wee should leave this out. Lett us goe on to make an agreement for our civill rights uppon those thinges wherin wee are agreed, and lett us [not] make such a thinge necessary to the agreement as will inevitably exclude one of us from the agreement, butt lett us make such a distribution of the publique trust in such hands as shall give everyone an equall share, an equall interest and possibility, and lett us submitt ourselves to these future Representatives, and if wee bee nott satisfied in one Representative itt may bee satisfied in the next. This would certainly bee the most reasonable way in all those that have nott admitted this Agreement.
Saving that, [as] itt's alleadged on one hand, "If you putt this into the Agreement you necessarily exclude mee from itt, as my conscience is that the Magistrate should have that power;" soe sayes the other, "If you have nott this in the Agreement you doe exclude mee from the Agreement for my conscience sake, for my conscience is, that the Magistrate should nott have that power."
Then Sir—For that truly I thinke itt has bin offer'd, to the end wee may come to the neerest possibility that I can see to an agreement—this hath bin offer'd. That you cannot conscientiously intrust the Magistrate with a power which by the rule of God hee ought nott to exercise, butt if you finde itt is alleadg'd to give him a power to all thinges butt those that are reserved, and [if we do] nott reserve this from him then wee give him the power of that. To that itt hath bin offer'd, that in your generall clause concerning the power of the supreame Magistracie of the peoples Representative that wee should [make it] extend to all civill and naturall  thinges;a then if nott having right to a power from him if hee will exercise his power without clayming itt from some body else; if hee have itt in him of God then your Agreement cannott take itt from him; if hee have itt nott [of God] then itt is nott [given him] in the Agreement.
For that for a setling of the power, there are noe rightfull foundations of this trust [save] either Divine Institution or designation of the person, or else an humane placing of them. Now though itt bee in man (where God doth nott designe) rightfully to elect and designe the persons, yett when the persons are elected and instituted, what is their duty to doe in point of justice, and what is their duty in point of those thinges of religion whereof they are to judge, [those are things] that are nott to bee determined by those that committ the trust to them. Certainly [by] the same reason as wee in only making our choice of the persons and of the time of their continuance, (that are clearly in our power) dob leave itt to him according to his judgement to determine and proceede in matters of civill right and civill thinges, [so] wee may uppon the same ground, without further prejudice to the inwardc man, referre to him a power of determining as to the outward man what hee will allow or suffer in matter of religion.
And thus I have indeavoured as clearly as I can to state the Question and the severall Questions that are in this businesse.
Wee are about preparing an Agreement for the people and truly, my Lord, itt is high time that wee did agree. If we now vary itt is  a ready way to common ruine and destruction. My Lord, I doe perceive in this paper which is prepared for the people to bee by Agreement. There is one Article in itt which hath bin soe much spoken of to the great stumbling of many. Itt causes a great difference amongest us. If soe, wee cannott butt expect that itt will cause a greater in the Kingdome, and soe great as doubtlesse will occasion a new commotion. Since itt is soe apparent to us, I must thinke itt were a very necessary Question to putt, whether this ought nott to bee left out of this paper, yea or noe. For how can wee terme that to bee an Agreement of the people which is neither an Agreement of the major parte of the people, and truly for anythinge I can perceive (I speake out of my owne judgement and conscience) nott [an Agreement of] the major parte of the honest partie of the Kingdome? If the Question were whether the Magistrate should have coercive power over mens Consciences, I thinke itt is a very necessary thinge to putt. Wee have bin necessitated to forcea the Parliament, and I should bee very unwilling wee should force the people to an Agreement.
I agree to that motion of the Commissary Generall, that there might be some of contrary principles or parties chosen out to agree uppon the stating of our Question, that wee may nott spend soe much time in that which wee are to Debate uppon.
I should bee loath to taxe any heere with mistakes, though I have nott a better worde to call it by, and itt hath bin used oft already. I conceive there are many mistakes have pass'd in bringing forth the state of the Question. There has bin a mistake I conceive of the true subject that is to bee intituled to this businesse, and a mistake of the capacitie that you are in to act in this businesse, and a mistake of the opportunity that lies before you,  and of the fruite and end of your actions. I conceive my Lord, that hee hath not bin intituled to this thinge who ought to be intituled, and that is our Lord Jesus Christ, who is heire of all thinges; and as hee was Gods delight before the world was made, why, soe God did bringe forth all thinges by him in a proportion and conformitie to him, to that image of his delight and content his sonne; and soe retayning this proportion, and acting in this conformitie to him, have all States and Kingdomes stood that have stood, and expect to stand; and declining from this proportion, itt hath bin the ruine of all Governments [that have done so]. Itt is God's designe, I say, to bringe forth the Civill Governement, and all thinges heere belowe in the image and resemblance of thinges above; and when as those thinges that are butt of [a temporary] and representative nature have clash't with that which hath bin their end; and have either sett uppe themselves, or sett uppe thinges that are of this world like themselves, as their end, and soe have made all thinges (I meane the thinges of the other world) to stoope and vaile to these ends, and have measured Religion and the appearances of God according to rules and ends of pollicie, itt hath bin the ruine of all States. I conceive that that is the account that is to bee given of the [cause of the] condition that this Kingdome is brought into att this time.
Now, My Lord, God having thus taken us a pieces, and that righteously, because our Governement did nott stand in God in itts patterne, why hee hath only by his providence now brought forth the Governement of the sword, being that which only wee are capable of, and which wee have brought ourselves into a condition of needing and requiring.a Now, My Lord, I conceive that this same goodwill which is in your Excellency and in the Army to promote the spirituall liberties of the Saints as well as the civill liberties of men, cannott butt bee taken well. Itt is that which certainly you shall nott fare the worse for att the hands of God, who will award unto you according to your doinges, and according to  your intentions. Butt wee must alsoe professe that the Kingedome of Christ does nott stand in [need of help from] any power of man; and that Christ will growe uppe in the world, lett all powers whatsoever combine never soe much against him. Soe that I conceive the Question is nott soe much to bee putt in the interest of Christ and of the truth—I meane in the interest of the neede of Christ of your restraining of the Magistrate,—of your providing against such coercion. Butt if itt should bee, now that the Magistrate is despoyled of all power to oppresse the saints, if you should goe to lay an opportunity before him againe, and offer such a thinge to him, certainly that were to lay a great snare before them,a and by thrusting them on to breake their owne neckes the faster. For this I look upon,—that Magistrates and all the powers of the world, unlesse they were in the imediate hand and guidance of God, unlesse hee does superact, they will dash against this stone. Itt is naturall to them nott to retaine themselves in that subordination wherin they are unto God and unto Christ, who are butt to represent [him] in this spheare of theirs in a lower way, and to bee subservient to him. Butt there is an enmitie in all these, there is an enmitie in the powers of the world [against God], and therfore Christ must bee putt downe [by them], as wee have itt att this day. God is in the Kingdome, and hee is growing uppe, and men shall nott bee able to hinder him. Soe that heere's all the question that I conceive can bee made, and all that is concern'd in itt [is this]: whether you will declare your goodwill to Jesus Christ, or noe. For I say, Christ depends nott either uppon this or that, or the truth uppon itt, as if itt should suffer or die, if such a power doe nott appeare for itt. Butt there may bee somethinge else concern'd then [the truth, namely] the flesh of the Saints, which God is tender of; for hee is tender of all of us in our severall administrations and under our severall dispensations; and if soe bee that [the] Saints are nott  prepared soe to suffer, or inabled to committ themselves to him in well-doing without such defence as your sword [or] your arme, to restraine and keepe back persecutors—itt may bee God may in mercy putt this into your hearts to accomodate the weakenesse of his people soe. Butt I conceive, My Lord, that this thinge is nott att all essentiall unto your worke; for the power of the sworde and all other power whatsoever being extinct righteously, because itt stood nott and did nott act in God, I conceive that which you have to doe is to waite uppon God, untill hee shall shew you some way, and nott to bee too forward to settle. I perceive by this Agreement of the People there is a going on to settle presently, and [to] make a new constitution, which I thinke wee are nott in such a capacitie to doe. God will bringe forth a New Heaven and a New Earth. In the meane time your worke is to restraine, indeed to restraine the Magistrate from such a power. That the people of God, and that men too, that all men that are, ought to live within such bounds as may bee made manifest to them to bee such bounds that they may nott suffer wronge by might. Certainly if soe bee you shall soe manage your opportunity, I conceive you shall fully answer your end; waiting uppon God untill hee shall [deliver you], who certainly is growing uppe amongst us; and if wee could have butt patience to waite uppon him, wee should see hee would bringe us out of this labyrinth wherin wee are.
That that I was going about to say was only this: I shall nott take uppon mee to dispute the Question, only tell you I feare I shall goe away with the same opinion I came. That itt was the Question, itt is the Question, and itt will bee the Question to the ending of the world: whether the Magistrate have any power att all [in matters of religion], and what that power is? My Lord, I offer itt to yourselfe and everybody, whether your affaires will  admitt of soe much delay as to determine the Question whether or noe. This that is term'd the Agreement of the People, whether you doe alwayes expect to uppehold itt by the power of the sword? Otherwise you must have somethinge suitable to the affections of the people, to correspond with itt. Truly, My Lord, I should bee glad all men might bee satisfied and I thinke, if I know my heart, I could suffer for their satisfaction. Butt since itt is uppon these termes that wee cannott goe together in all thinges, I desire wee may bee soe good natur'd as to goe as farre as wee can, and I hope before that [time for parting] comes God will finde out a way to keepe us together. If the other thinges which are Civill may soe bee termed the Agreement by us, if they may bee gone through withall, and if wee can expresse any thinge to lett the world know wee doe not goe about to give the Magistrate power in that which hee hath noe power, truly, My Lord, this will shew that wee goe nott about to give him more then hee has, if hee have itt att all wee take itt away. Certainly what wee doe heere does nott conclude against right, wee may bee mistaken, if wee give itt nott certainly wee restraine from that usurpation hitherto though I could thinke itt a great-deale of happinesse that every man had as much liberty as I desire I may have nott to bee restrain'd; and since I venture nothing butt a persecution of the flesh, and instead of bringing ease to the Kingedome I should lay itt out, and to that which lies uppon us of destroying Kinges and Parliaments and all that, wee shall destroy a people of our owne, wee shall nott bee thought agreers butt disturbers of the peace. Therfore I shall desire wee may goe on to other thinges and leave this till that time. And truly itt is somethinge to mee that the Spiritt of God has nott thought fitt to determine in this world, as wee are to live uppon such incomesa from God, and though itt bee a very pleasing thinge to have God appeare in  power to us in itt, yett God hath bin as much glorified in the suffering of Saints as in their doing, and therfore I desire wee may goe on to other thinges and nott sticke att this.
May itt please your Lordshippe.
I thinke wee have hardly time enough to spend about those thinges that are very essentially and certainly before us to bee done out of hand.
First of all, wee doe nott know any one's mindes, for I doe nott finde anythinge att all is putt to the Question. For if any one of these three or fower were putt to the Question wee might have noe Question.a I know without all controversie there hath bin dispute, and will bee a great while [about this], and I know nott in what Country this will bee first decided.b Nott that God and Nature hath left itt soe [doubtful], butt from Diotrephesc to this day there hath bin a spiritt of domination. There are two thinges uppon which I will raise the Conclusion. 1. I am mervailous tender that there shall bee nothing done about Religion in England (and I am only tender in England, if I were in another Country I would nott say soe) because the interest of England is Religion.d I say itt lookes like the interest of the Kingdome; and I beleive you will finde that [religion is the cause of] those contests that have bin in the Kingdome. And though that Gentleman and others are inabled to know if [it be] soe [better  than I am], I ask why doe wee march with our swordes by our sides? From first to the last wee might have suffer'd under Kinges, or Byshopps, or Parliament or anybody, and wee that [speak] know what itt is to suffer and to bee banish't a thousand miles.a You shall know all the disputes all alonge have bin uppon this very point. Itt was the old Question in Pharoah's dayes, Whether the people should worship or no? Yett [though] I thinke in truth, [that] though wee all satt still, yett the worke of God will goe on, I am nott in the minde wee should putt our hands in our pocketts and waite what will come.b Wee have bin drawne to this worke, wee have nott bin perswading ourselves. I should spitt him out that would looke for any plantations of his owne from the other side, lett that bee curs't from heaven to minde the thinges of that Kingdome.c I only offer these two thoughts. First, God seemes to call for somethinge att our hands about Religion, and that only because wee are Englishmen. The 2d thinge is this. That I thinke wee should nott bee too much perplex't about itt; and therfore, if I finde itt move uppon other spiritts that itt is a matter of great intricacie or trouble my thought is this. Doe butt tame that old spiritt of domination amonge Christians, of trampling uppon their Brother, and giving law, and the like. Witnesse the Country next from us that hath all the markes of a flourishing state uppon itt, I meane the Low Countries. Wee are nott soe against or afraid of this toleration, and I am nott soe against on the other side that are to feare some sufferinges. That which I would hinte is, that now wee are come heere to settle somethinge for Magistrates [let us settle something for the Church too]. "If she bee a wall," sayes [Solomon of] the Church, "wee will build a silver palace uppon her, and if shee bee a doore wee will have her of boards of  cedar."a For the present case I thinke this, that that last motion made by that noble freind and some others [should be agreed to]. I wish wee would doe as all other Republiques would doe when wee come to such a rubbe as this is, I wish that this thought about this reserve may bee hunge forth in every Markett towne if men will write or speake about itt give itt a time itt may have a month or two that before you goe on with your other worke, and those thinges that can bee agreed to, and the affaires of the Kingdome from such time they may nott have longe debates. And soe you have my thoughts.b
Wee are now about an Agreement of the people, and I perceive one clause in itt is, that if wee have this Agreement wee will acquiesce.c I conceive if you leave this [power to the Magistrate] I can never comfortably [acquiesce in it], nor any man breathing, and this surely will bee [a cause of disagreement] if heed bee nott restrain'd in his power.
That Gentleman hath mentioned itt 3 or 4 times as if itt might bee taken for granted, that the Magistrate hath power over the outward man [but none over the inward man]. In some case itt may bee done. If hee hath power over my body hee hath power  to keepe mee att home when I should goe abroad to serve God. And concerning [yourselves] one worde I would speake. God has pleas'd by your meanes [to give us what liberty we have], which wee looke att as from himself by whome wee have had all the comforts wee enjoy,—I say God hath made you instruments of libertie. In matters of Religion that's preferr'd by us before life. Lett's have that or nothing. Now God hath by your meanes troden uppon that power which should have trodden uppon us. [Let us agree] to prevent any authority from coming uppon us. If you never agree in your Judgements, itts noe matter, [if you] keepe butt authority from beating of us and killing of us, and the like. And wheras that Gentleman spake of this concerning a Representative, concerning what power they should have heerafter, wee have this to say. If you your owneselves cannott helpe us [to freedom] in matters of opinion wee doe nott looke for itt while wee breathe. The Lord hath bin pleas'd to informe you as [well as] any other men. If you cannott agree uppon itt, then Ib shall conclude for my parte, never to expect freedome whiles I live.
May itt please your Excellency.
I would nott trouble you save that itt may save you trouble. I doe wish that which was offer'd at first might bee entertained to save time. That you would putt the businesse in such a way [as] to have the state of the Question.a If itt bee soe longe before you come to the Question, itt will bee longer before you come to a resolution in itt. I offer this: That because this is that which stickes uppon the consciences of men I would nott have itt taken notice of by any that you would soe slight them as nott to doe that now, butt that some of all interests may have the consideration of this, and therin you may have confidence that God will blesse the issue. For what expedient there may bee found in itt that  may bee left to their consideration, and the blessing of God uppon their indeavours. Whether they should have assistance from some out of London, or those that would bee willing to meete [them from] elsewhere uppon itt, would bee an happy thinge to guide them to the right of itt. That then you would please to goe with the rest of the thinges that I thinke you may more generally concurre in.a
I should make this motion: whether wee might nott finde somethinge att this time might satisfie all, and whether in that foregoing clause. . . . "That in all civill thinges," [etc.], wee might nott satisfie all interests?b
That will leade you to a consideration of the meritt of the thinge, and will spend much time in debate pro and con, and if itt please God to guide the hearts of some few itt may bee a satisfaction.
I shall take the boldnesse to offer one worde or two. That Gentleman that spoke lastc was pleas'd to offer this as an expedient to satisfie all: that if the worde[s] 'civill and naturall' [were inserted, it] might suffice to satisfie all. I suppose [they will] nott [satisfy all], because that all punishments, though for matters  of religion, are meerly civill for the punishment of the body; and whatsoever the sentence of the Church [may be], if they doe sentence any person, they send him to the secular power. Soe that will bee as himself has spoken. . . . .
Butt I shall adde one worde. This Army by the blessing of God hath done very great thinges for the Nation, and itt's the honour of the Nation that itt hath bin a shelter to honest people that had otherwise bin hammer'd to dust, and as longe as God makes us a shelter to them [it will be an honour to us]. Wee are now closing uppe the day, and I thinke every one heere is willing to see an end of the days, yea yeares [of his life] were itt to see that freedome soe often spoken of, and that common right soe often desired, clearly brought forth to the people. Your Lordshippe and the Army under your command hath taken uppon you to interpose in those times of straightes, to see if you could finde out such a way as might settle the people in formes of common right and freedome. You have remonstrated this to the world; and to that end you have hinted unto a petition of the 11th of September wherin (if your Lordshippe please to looke uppon that itt doth aime att) the thinge principally spoken of [is] that there may nott bee a restriction to the opinions of men for matters of religion, to the[ir] consciences.a Wee are conclude[d] men cannott master  passions. I referre this to bee consider'd whether if this bee nott our common right and our common freedome to live under a Civill Magistrate to live by our neighbours, butt as touching religion why should any people bee punished. I thinke, My Lord, that every one heere when hee speakes his Conscience will say plainly [no]. And now whether wee for prudence or policie should protest. Lett us doe that which is right, and trust God with the rest. Noe man or Magistrate on the earth hath power to meddle in these cases. As for meum and tuum, and right betweene man and man hee hath right, butt as betweene God and man hee hath nott. Therfore I desire [that] though all agree that the Magistrate hath noe power to doe soe, and wee have noe power to give him; yett seing hee hath in all ages usurp't itt; and in these late yeares, and in this last agea almost as in the remembrance of errours and blasphemies had made most of them heere to fall to the ground, and since that is soe wee have great reason to reserve itt soe. Wee might bee willing to reserve itt [hereafter] when wee cannott.
Truly, My Lord, I should nott trouble you agen, butt that I see wee are falne uppon an Argument; and from the convincing of one another with light and reason wee are falne to an eager catching att that which is our owne opinion, and dictating that which is our apprehension, as if itt were the minde of all, and indeed of God himself; and indeed studying to preconclude one another by consequence, as especially the Gentleman did that spoke last. Hee tells us, that wee are bound by the Remonstrance to doe this thinge that now wee are questioning about whether wee should doe or noe; and one ground is because in that our Remonstrance wee had referr'd soe to a petition of the 11th of September  that wee had desired all thinges [in it] to bee granted. Butt if soe itt had bin an ill use of itt; if there had bin generally good thinges in itt, and one thinge prejudiciall, though wee did stand uppon all thinges in itt that were [good] wee were false to our Engagement. When wee had desired the whole wee did nott insist uppon every particle of itt. I desire wee may nott proceede uppon mistakes of this kinde. This conduces only to stifle itt, and I wish wee may nott goe about to sett such thinges uppon men's mindes.a I must clearly minde that Gentleman, that all that is said in the Remonstrance concerning the [petition of the] 11th of September is butt this: when wee have prosecuted our desire concerning justice, and our desires to a generall settlement, and amongst the rest a dissolving of this Parliament, [we then desire] that this Parliament would apply themselves for the remainder of the time to such thinges as are of publique consideration, and lay aside particular matters that have interrupted them hitherto, and for the further time they shall sitt nott medling with private matters, butt consider those thinges that are proper [work] for Parliaments, as reformation of laws, and providing better for the well government of the nation, and hearken to what hath bin offer'd to them by persons well-affected for the publique good; and amongst the rest [we mention] that petition of the 11th of September [and we move this as to matters to be taken into consideration, in due time and place, after public justice and the general settlement of the kingdom].b Now because wee saw very many and great dreames of good thinges, and therfore have desired they would take itt into consideration with this Agreement and settlement  thinges of that nature, and amongst the rest that therfore wee should bee concluded because of that, that wee should nott now have any thinge in this Agreement that shall nott prevaile for that which the petition does [is unreasonable].
Another thinge wee have declar'd [for]: to have a settlement uppon grounds of common right and freedome. Itt is the title of the Agreement.a 'Tis true, butt I doe nott altogether remember that itt is in our Declaration. Lett itt bee soe that itt is a common right. Itt is dictated to us by that Gentleman to bee a common right and freedome [that any man] submitting to the Civill Governement of the Nation should have liberty to serve God according to his conscience.b This a right, I will agree to that. That is nott the Question amongst us. For if that were the Question, I should bee sure to give my noe to the allowance of any man [to be punished] for his conscience, and if I had a thousand noes I should give itt, and that as loud as any man.
Heere's a[nother] Gentlemanc that does speake for what is to bee done in this businesse, [as being] a matter that is nott necessary to God and Jesus Christ, butt a thinge wherin wee must shew our good will to him, in preserving his people from sufferinges for that which is his worke, his act. If that were the thinge in Question, I should thinke that wee of this Army above all others should walke most unworthy of the mercies wee have found, if wee should nott indeavour [it].
Butt heere's the case. The Question is now, whether you shall make such a provision for men that are conscientious, [in order] that they may serve God according to their light and conscience, as shall necessarily debarre any kinde of restraint on any thinge that any man will call religion. That's the very Question. Truly, itt is soe, or else you will make noe question. If you could  bringe itt to a restraint for the Magistrate to punish only men that are members and servants of Jesus Christ, all that are heere would give an aye to itt. Butt to the question: whether admitting that to bee never soe good, and I thinke itt is our great duty and great interest to indeavour [to secure it]—yett whether wee shall make our provision for that in such a way as shall give to all men their latitude, without any power to restraine them, to practice idolatry, [or] to practice atheisme, and any thinge that is against the light of God?
That is nott the Question; butt [whether] that clause may bee in the Agreement or nott?
Whether this bee nott the Question: thata [all that] will joyne with you in civill thinges [shall be free from any restraint in spiritual things]? Now I come to tell you of what kinde those thinges are that conscientious men doe thinke the Magistrate ought to restraine. I doe nott thinke any man conscientious [that says] that the Magistrate ought to restraine a man from that which Jesus Christ does teach him; butt men have consciences to say that there are many thinges that men may owne and practice under pretence of religion, that there may, nay there ought to bee the restraint of them in; and that is the ground of our Question. Butt if I have mistaken this, I shall willingly bee mistaken. However I am sure of this in generall: that there is noe exception to the putting of this in this Agreement butt this; that you cannott soe provide for such a reserve as this is for men really conscientious that they shall nott bee persecuted, butt you will  by that debarre the Magistrate of a power that hee ought to have to restraine.
There is something offer'd in that which I made bold to speake of. The Question that I conceiv'd to bee canvas'd was: whether your Excellency should improve this opportunity to restraine any power whatsoever from oppressing or vexing any man for the thinges that hee does conscientiously?
That's nott the Question.
I suppose itt will bee resolved in this, and though the termes may bee different.
Doe you make that [clear] that they shall nott punish for any thinge butt that, and wee shall stand to itt.
I conceive that there is all alonge a supposition of a provision to bee made to prevent heresies in the world, besides that same which is (as I conceive) the only meanes of suppressing them and eradicating them, and that is the breaking forth of him who is the Truth, the breaking forth of Christ in the mindes and spiritts of men. This is that which does only roote uppe and destroy those heresies, those false conceptions and imaginations; and I conceive that this same is altogether omitted and forgotten in the discourse [of the Commissary General]. For this is the extreamity that wee are reduc't to looke uppon. How shall we avoide, say you, butt that the Kingdome may bee overrunne with such thinges as idolatry and the grossest thinges that are? I conceive that itt is nott proper for Magistracie to bee applyed unto this; and therfore if you doe reserve [from  the Magistrate] this power to apply himself this way to the restraint of these, you doe nott reserve [from] him that which is his right, that to which hee beares any proportion, neither doe you withold any meanes that is proper for the suppressing and preventing of these thinges. Itt is a shewing a great diffidence in the spiritt of God, and in Christ, as if he would nott provide for the maintayning his owne truth in the world.
I will only trouble you in a worde. Wee are nott yett resolved uppon a Question. [The Commissary General] and the Gentleman there that spoke last [differ] which ought to bee the Question; though in the issue itt will bee, whether this clause concerning religion ought to bee in [the Agreement]. Yett to the end that you may come to a period [I desire] that you would first take this into consideration: Whether the Magistrate hath any inspection att all in matters of Religion? And when you have concluded that itt will fall under your consideration how much [power] will bee needfull for you uppon any considerations to give to him. Therfore, if you will fall into the Debate of the businesse, I doe humbly offer this to your Excellency as the first Question: Whether the Magistrate hath any power or noe?
I would nott have spoken in this kinde, butt that I have heard divers men speaking, and yett in my owne sence they doe nott come to that which I apprehend concerning the thinge. The Gentleman that spoke last spoke well: that hee would have a Question [stated, whether the Magistrate hath any power or no]. All that I would adde [is, that the question be], whether they have any power to restraine men in their owne consciences acting to civill peace and civill honesty? Whether Jesus Christ under the New Testament hath given any power to the Civill Magistrate to restraine men professing their Consciences before God, while they walke orderly according to civill peace and civill honesty?
Itt is good to keepe to the Question which was first drawne, and as it is last (whether Jesus Christ hath given such power) itt is a catching Question. Itt was nott the businesse of Jesus Christ when hee came into the world to erect Kingdomes of the world, and Magistracies, or Monarchies, or to give the rule of them positive or negative. Therfore if you would consider this Question, whether the Magistrate have any thinge to doe in any thinge which men will call Religion (for you must goe soe large), you must nott confine itt [to the enquiry] whether Jesus Christ have under the Gospell given itt, butt you must looke to the whole Scripture. As there is much in the old Testament which hath lost much, yett there are some thinges of perpetuall and naturall right, that the Scripture of the old Testament doth hold forth, wherin itt does beare a cleare witnesse to that light that every man hath left in him by nature, if hee were nott deprav'd by lust. There are some thinges of perpetuall right in the old Testament that the Magistrate had a power in before the coming of Jesus Christ in the flesh. Unlesse you can shew us that those thinges are nott a perpetuall right, nor had nott their perpetuall end, butt had only their temporall end, soe as to determinate by his coming in the flesh, you must give us leave to thinke that the Magistrate ought according to the old institution to follow that right.
I desire your Excellency to consider whether itt tends? If itt bee a Question tending to that, then consider what you doe in putting itt to the Question. Either you resolve that they have a power or nott. I would faine learne if itt bee resolved whether that trust bee infallible, if itt bee liable to a mistake then wee may build a very great foundation.
Now is only to dispute the Question.
[I desire] that your Lordshippe would bee pleased to state the Question. There is one thinge that I have observed, that words of a neere significancie [sometimes lead to confusion], and I conceive these two words doe. Itt is one worde of "matters of religion," and another "matters of conscience." Matters of conscience is larger then "mattersa of religion." Itt concernes that of the 2d table. Now if itt bee the power of the Civill Magistrate over consciences for a man may make conscience of some thinges. There was a Gentleman cast into Newgate to bee executed for having two wives, and hee had this case of conscience;b hee sent for severall Divines, and amongst the rest I had this dispute. All the arguments about persecution for conscience. "Those that were of neerest affinity to sett them farthest off" [etc.].c [Say] such matters [of conscience] as concerne the first Table; then you come to distinct termes.
As a servant to your Excellency I desire to speake a worde. There is none concern'd more in libertie then the Lord himself. I know nothing butt that Kinges and Armies and Parliaments might have bin quiett att this day, if they would have lett Israell alone. For men to give away God how well they will answer itt I doe nott know. The Lord is a transcendent thinge. There is a seede gone forth from God . . . and whiles I am in bonds heere you will punish mee, when I shall come to returne to my spiritt. . . . Itt was nott the saints butt God himself. . . . and therfore all that I shall say to this—if you can make by your power a Magistrate a Lord and lett him bee sett uppe as soone as you will. I have noe more to say.
I should desire the Question if I thought the Question would doe the businesse. I am afraid wee are gotten into the ocean againe. I should desire that might bee minded to save the time. Itt was moved a while since, and that by the way, to putt itt to such a thinge as may bee satisfactorie, for I doe nott thinke that words can satisfie the hearts of men. Butt if your Lordshippe shall take such a course that men of all interests to bee together. Lett the world know you will bring them into their civil quiett. Wee doe nott know butt that they will bee all agreed in this, and when itt is declared to the world, all Gods people may bee free.
An't please your Lordshippe, for ought I perceive there are many presumptions. Many thinke there are great presumptions. I desire there may bee tendernesse had, and that is first, that Justice may bee executed.b I feare stating this soe high itt does somethinge putt a demurre uppon that, and uppon what ground I doe nott know. I shall desire, that the meritt of the Remonstrance may bee consider'd, and noe other thinge offer'd that may intermingle, and desire that as itt is of that tender consideration as to bloud or peace. I heare of some thinge that hath bin spoken heere, that there have bin divers invited that as yett doe nott appeare; and [I move] what was by one Gentlemanc offer'd to your Lordshippe, that the place and time may bee soe determined as to this particular that they may have a further invitation, and soe bee invited that they may come. I shall desire that wee doe nott lay a foundation of distractions.
I shall desire to move this, that when wee doe putt itt to the Question, first, that you would propose heere what shall bee the Questions in the Debate; and then to referre itt to some persons and some time wherin you may take the concurrence of all persons that doe concurre. And in the meane time that the rest may bee [busied] in the [matters]a that concerne the whole.
I have observed, that there hath bin much controversie about this point, and severall motions concerning the matters. One thinge offer'd by Col. Hewson and some others, that some of all parties might bee chosen. I humbly conceive the same thinge hath bin already done, for there hath bin fower of severall parties chosen for the drawing uppe of this Agreement,c which they have done to try who will agree, and who will nott agree; for itt is a thinge nott of force butt of agreement; and I presume, that there is noe man heere butt is satisfied in his owne judgement what to agree to, and what nott to agree to. I desire itt may passe to the Question, [yea] or noe?
I should bee as free as any man to have a catch of his owne Agreement, there was little difference in those that drew this uppe.
Calling for the Question.
My Lord, the Question that men doe call for is nott as to the  Agreement—whether that clause may bee fitlie in or noe, or any thinge to that purposea—butt [a question] to bee debated in relation to our judgements.
The Question was: Whether the Magistrate have any power in matters of Religion, that is, those thinges concerning the first Table?
I shall offer one worde to the Question.
Whether the Magistrate have or ought to have any power in matters of Religion, by which wee understand the thinges concern'd under the First Table?
My Lord, I finde that there is a generall agreement by every person that hath spoken, that itt is nott his desire that the Civill Magistrate should exercise a power to persecute any honest man that walkes according to his conscience in those thinges that are really religious, and nott pretended soe. What is represented in opposition to this is: That wee cannott finde out any way to discriminate this from thatb exorbitant liberty which those that are nott Religious butt would pretend to bee soe, would take. If you please I should offer my sence to the Question:
Whether or noe the Civill Magistrate is to exercise any power, restrictive or compulsive, uppon the persons of men in matters of Religion, they walking inoffensive to the Civill peace?
My Lord, I still say, that whoever is eager to catch advantages  for his owne opinion that there may be an advantage gained on the other hand, does nott further agreement. That which is propounded I did offer itt, that men under pretence of Religion may breake the peace, [or do] thinges that are civilly evill. Now, My Lord, I suppose that "whether if a man doe walk civilly & inoffensively or noe," is nott att all necessary to bee consider'd in this, which is the first and maine Question that is heere propounded, [viz.] whether in some thinges which [a mana] may call Religion, [the magistrateb] may have a restrictive power. Whether compulsive or restrictive power you may take itt whether you will. Yett it may still bee the question, if you will have itt puttc [after the main question].d
One word more I added, that word "civill peace" or "civill honesty."
Make itt whatsoever you will according to "civill peace" or "civill honesty;" yett still itt remaines to bee debated [whether the magistrate is to exercise any power in matters of religion].
My Lord, I doe perceive as I judge, and speake itt with submission, that there are some heere that are too inclinable to follow the course of corrupt Committees formerly, that were forward to putt the Question before there bee satisfaction given.
Heere have bin very many disputes what would bee the Question, and if these words bee nott further explain'd in those termes the Question is still, and hath bin, that which I thinke most mens spiritts heere have from the beginning satisfied to bee, [to wit]: Whether you will restraine Magistrates from that tyranny of compelling or enforcinga men, and persecuting men for doing those thinges they doe out of conscience, and as to the worshipp of God?
Reades the Question.
Whether [the Magistrate ought to have any power in matters of religion, by which we understand the things concerned under the first Table]?
I desire the word compulsive may bee added, for restrictive will nott bee large enough. If [the words] any power bee nott large enough, [I desire that] then you will take both "compulsive" and "restrictive."
My Lord, I perceive itt's every man's opinion, that the Magistrate hath a protective power; and if you will apply matters of Religion to the first Table, itt will bee granted [that he should also have a] compulsive. "Thou shalt have noe other Gods butt mee," "Thou shalt make noe graven image" &c. "Thou shalt nott take the name of the Lord in vaine." And then for the 4th. "Thou shalt nott doe any manner of worke [on the Sabbath day].
Whether the Magistrate have or ought to have any power in matters of Religion?
I doe apprehend there hath bin much time taken uppe about the  restrictive power anda the compulsive power; that is concerning the power of the Magistrate in matters appertayning to the Kingedome of Heaven, and the Kingdome of God. They have bin debated, first, whether hee have power; and 2dly what is that power that hee hath;b and soe whether the power that hee hath bee either compulsive or restrictive. Now I doe conceive, that any other power [than that] which is purely protective hee hath nott; and I doe give this account. The whole power of the Magistrate is said to bee the power of the sword, an outward power. I doe apprehend [that] really all matters relating to the Kingedome of God are purely and altogether spiritual; and therfore I conceive [that] to allow the Magistrate any other power then that which is purely protective of men to live quietly is to putt a power into the hands of the Magistrate which is nott att all given him by God. I speake somethinge as a man, and I crave leave to speake a word only as a Christian, as touching affaires of this nature, which I doe confesse is a matter to bee acknowledged as the great and wonderfull worke of God. To witt, that there is a time [of] coming forth of captives, according as the Scripture speakes, "I will take off every yoake and remove every heavy burthen from off the people, because of the annointing,"c that is, because of Christ. Now Sir, give mee leave [to say], this thing is the great matter, and it is the glory of the nation that wee have lived to [see] it, and it is the care of the honourable Councill and all the good people of the Nation, how wee are [to] secure the people of the Nation from the like thraldome they have bin in in times past. I will lay downe only this one position. The ground of all that enmity that hath bin of men one against another, and of the universall enmity that hath bin in all sorts of men against God, I conceive hath bin the state of ignorance, and darkenesse, and pretence of Religion that hath bin amongst us. That nott having the faith itt self which wee have pretended to see wee have rather the forme of godlinesse then the power of itt, and  God hath bin pleased to bringe forth as wee have heard.a There are certaine men in the Army that having tasted of the good worde of God and the powers of the world to come, that have bin in the good land, have bin in such a scattered time, wee all having light come, that the land may have her sabaoth in a good sence after 6 or 7 yeares disturbance or trouble now taken away, and therfore the Lord fill the Nation with men of upright spiritts. Whatsoever you doe appoint for the restrayning of men the Magistrate his hands will nott bee bound uppe, butt hee will keepe his power against that Religion that is contrary to himself; and therfore that's to bee prevented att this time as longe as wee goe noe further.
A caution that you would use such words as concerne a restrictive power.
Whether the Magistrate have or ought to have any compulsive, or restrictive power in matters of Religion?
1. That those who are of the opinion in the affirmative,b begin to lay downe their grounds, and that the discussion bee alternate:
2. That if noe man give grounds for a compulsive power, then those that doe speake against the power of the Magistrate will speake only to the restrictive power.
If there bee noe man heere to speake. . . . . That that, I should offer to consideration is this. When Israell having bin at a losse a longe time had renewed their Covenant with God soe that God accepted them, Hee was pleased to deliver his minde to them (and nott only to them butt to all the sons of men) in those ten words, commonly called, the Ten Commandements. Now as your good Apostle saith, they consist of two Tables, and the commands of the  first Table are all negatives. Now God never gave any rules to the sons of men butt hee gave them to bee in force. For my owne parte I apprehend, that they are morall, and soe a rule to all the sons of men as well as to Israell, butt especially to those who are zealous for their God. That there is a compulsive power left to the Magistrates that I cannott alledge; butt that there is a restrictive [power from the very] nature of the Commandements that I doe hold necessary. Neither did Israell ittself goe about to compell any man, butt were very watchfull and shy whome they did admitt into communion with them, butt wee have observed that they have restrain'd, as itt concernes every Magistrate [to do]. Wee must nott looke att Pagans and Heathens that are revolted from their duties to God, and yett God hath left those impressions uppon the sons of men that you shall nott finde any people butt they worshippe some God. Now the command of God in that kinde is, that they should worshippe noe other God butt him. This is that which I thinke lies uppon all powers, to suffer noe other God to bee worship't butt Jehovah; and soe the 2d Commandement does restraine Idolatry. Butt as hee is pure in himself, soe hee will have such a worshipp as himself hath instituted and appointed; hee will nott have the sacred name taken in vaine. Now any that shall breake the 2d or 3d Commandement comes under the cognizance of the Civill Magistrate. Soe for the 4th, though there bee a Prologue leading to itt, yett itt is restrictive. Soe that though I have nothing to say for compulsive power, yett thus much I have to say, that [the magistrate ought to have a restrictive power]. God deliver'd these thinges to Moses that was a prince in Israell, and itt is a rule to this day, and itt is a rule by the light of Nature [also]; and therfore itt properly concernes the princes of the people, especially those that knowa God, to restraine corrupt worshippe.
I speake to this. That there is noe ground from the nature of the Meeting to conclude every man [as agreeing] that sayes nothing, if your end bee by the suffrage of silence to second your owne judgements, to stampe your owne judgements, butt these have a better foundation then silence, butt least silence should bee soe farre thought of—Truly as the Question is stated I thinke a man may assent to itt, if you will take the words, "those things that are truly religious."a If the contests that is betweene us and Byshopps were by way of compulsion they have assum'd soe much as this. That even in that which is truly religious, the worshipp and service of God, they have putt such restrictionsb as these are: that men shall nott preach though they bee called of God; and soe likewise compulsion, that such a forme of prayer [should be used]. In this sence your Question ought to bee understood, and soe to take the words in your proper speech, and that is religion. For if you say "religion" simply, by itt you understand true religion; and if you speake of any other thinge you will give itt's adjunct "false religion;" and soe a man may easily stand to itt, and yett nott come to what is the drift of the Question: whether a false religion, or such matters as these, are [matters which] the Magistrate hath to doe withall. If itt bee understood in that strict sence, I must stand with you in itt. I doe nott thinke, that the Civill Magistrate hath anythinge to doe determinatively to inforce anythinge that is matters of religion, to inforce the thinge that is that I doe extreamly question. Butt for the other [question], whether the Magistrate have anythinge to doe under any notion or consideration whatsoever, either of setting uppe the false God, which is noe religion indeed, that for my owne parte I must professe that I doe thinke the Magistrate may have somethinge to doe in that. And soe I shall deliver my judgement that noe man shippewreck himself in this thinge.
Whether the Magistrate have any restrictive or compulsive power in the time or manner of Gods worshippe, or [as to] faith or opinion concerning him?
Whether the Magistrate have or ought to have any power of restrayning men, by penalties or otherwise, from the profession or practice of any thinge the evill or good whereof relates to God only?
That you will leave [thereby] the judgement to the Civill Magistrate [to decide] whether the doing of such a thinge bee [relating] to God [only] or noe. Whether [when the magistrate punishes] errour ora heresie, hee doe nott [profess to] punish them as itt relates to the Neighbour; and whether if soe, weeb doe nott leave them to bee punished [by using those words.]?
1. I take itt for granted that [the things commanded in] those words which wee call the fower first Commandements they are matters of religion, the fault ofc non-performance whereof relates to God only, the duty and satisfaction if a man doe observe them relates to God onely. I speake concerning such thinges. As to them I give my ground thus. That as to those thinges the Magistrate hath a power to restraine men, and ought to doe itt. I argue first from the possibility of the thinge. Those are thinges against which there is a testimonie in the light of nature, and consequently, they are thinges that men as men are in some capacity [to judge of], unlesse they are perverted—indeed a man perverted in his owne lusts cannott judge of any thinge even matters of common honesty—2dly  Those who are subject[s] and nott the judges, they are likewise in [a] capacity to judge of the evill of those thinges even by the light of nature. And in that respect I account itt is proper and nott unsuitable to the judgment of men as men, and of Magistrates as Magistrates, because (if any body will take notes of itt in writing they maya) because in such thinges the Magistrate by the light that hee hath as a man may judge, and the subject by that light that hee hath as a man may bee convinc't.
In the next place I goe to grounds of Scripture, and shew that this is the Magistrates duty. And first I will take itt for granted till some body give mee reason to the contrary:
1. That tis the injunction [of the old Testament], and likewise itt hath bin the practice of Magistrates in all the time of the old Testament till the coming of Christ in the flesh, to restraine such thinges. If any doubt itt they shall have proofes: first, that the Magistrates of the Jewes as Magistrates were commanded to restraine such thinges: secondly, that they were commended when they did itt: thirdly, that they were reproved when they did nott. This is cleare through the current of the old Testament.
And first because I see the answers to these are obvious, I shall speake to the two chief [answers], and shew you what is objected. That is first: [that] what the Magistrates of the Jewes might or ought to doe is noe rule to others, for they were to doe itt as ecclesiastical Magistrates, Church matters concerning them; [that by] the punishment of death or such other punishments, they did butt allude to excommunication, unto the time of the Gospell; and that you can make noe inference from what they ought to doe as to conclude a perpetuall duty of Magistrates, butt a duty allegorically answer'd in the duty of Ecclesiasticall [officers in ecclesiastical] thinges. This I have have heard to bee one answer; and to this I shall butt apply one reason to shew the inconveniencie of this answer [to] those grounds that wee give from Scripture, and that is this. Iff  itt doe appeare that those that were the Magistrates amonge the Jewes,—whether they were Ecclesiasticall or Civill Magistrates—that they were to exercise this power, nott only to persons within the Church, butt [to persons] without the Church, professedly noe way within the compasse of the Church, then that objection is taken away. Butt I thinke [it is clear that] they were to extend this power to those that were out of the Church. They were commanded to beate downe the Idolls, and groves, and images of the land whither they went; they were commanded that they should nott suffer the stranger that was within the gate to worke on the Saboath, [and not to] to suffer swearers or idolaters of any kinde. If any man doubt that, itt is an easie matter to produce Scripture for that purpose—Soe that itt is cleare to mee they did [it] consider'd as Magistrates having an aucthority civill or nacturall, not as persons signifying or typifying the power of Ecclesiasticall Officers under the Gospell; and therfore what was a rule of duty to them (unlesse men can shew mee a ground of change) is a rule and duty of Magistrates now.
And that rule or duty to them leades mee to the next evasion: that what was a rule to them under the Law as Magistrates does nott hold under the Gospell. Now to this I answer (and I doe these thinges because I would give men grounds against the next meeting to consider of some thinges); I say that I will acknowledge as to those thinges enjoyn'd the practice whereof was commanded, the neglect whereof was reproved in the Magistrates of the Jewes, whose end was typicall and determinative, to end att the coming of Christ, to all those [I acknowledge] the duty of the Magistrate doth cease. Either as to restriction or compulsion [it] doth cease; because itt relates [not] to the thinges themselves. Butt for those thinges themselves for which they had a perpetuall ground in relacion of the duty to God, a perpetuall rule by the law written in mens hearts, and a [perpetuall] testimonie left in man by nature—and soe consequently for those thinges whereof the ground of duty towards God is nott chang'd—for those thinges I account that  what was sin before is sin still, what was sin to practice [before] remaines sin still, what was the duty of a Magistrate to restraine before remaines his duty to restraine still. And thus I have given my grounds why wee ought [not] to binde the hands of tho Magistrate, [so] that they shall nott restraine men from evills, though against God only, that are given as breaches of the first Table only.
I should have made bold to suggest my thoughts this way before. I doe nott professe itt to bee my opinion, butt now I shall doe itt uppon a ground or two.
Under favour I thinke your resolution att first was to propose some objections now, and leave them to consideration.
I shall crave leave to speake a few words to what the Commissary Generall hath said.
You were pleased to lay this for your ground. That the Magistrate ought to have a restrictive power in matters of religion, because matters of false worshippe (or att least of idolatry) are matters comprehended within the light of nature, such as may bee perceived by naturall men. I conceive first: That itt is nott whatsoever may bee made out, may bee drawna out by much meditation, or discourse, or inference by the light of nature—you will nott call this matters of the light of Nature; for then every man that is to obey your lawes ought to bee a student, and by contemplations finde those thinges that lie as remote from mens first apprehensions. There are abundance of thinges that may bee made out by the light of nature which are nott lawes or constitutions.b All law ought to bee [such] thinges [as may be known] by the light of nature; butt  such thinges as ought to bee knowne by the light of nature without inquiry, without meditation. Soe [for instance with regard to] thinges as to the being [of God], as to the creation of the world. Itt is an hard thinge for any man to come to frame a notion by such a meditation of such a being as is in God. You must putt in infinitenesse of wisedome &c. Itt will require much of a man's time to frame such a notion which will answer the being of God. For this is nott [to knowe God], to beleive that there is a God, to say there is a being which is more then men, from above that which is of men. Butt to know God is to beleive that there is a true God. "This is life eternall to beleive thee the only true God."a That was for that thinge. That though itt bee [possible] by the light of nature to make out [that there is a God, that though] men are capable by the light of nature to conceive that there is a God, yett to conceive this in a right and true manner itt is in the profundities, in the remotest parte, amongst those conclusions which lie farthest off from the presence of men, [even] though itt should bee in the light of nature.
And then againe, [with regard to] what you were pleas'd to observe concerning the Old Testament and the power of the Magistrate, I shall desire to suggest these two thinges by way of answer. My ground is: that there is nott the same reason for the power, and the exercise of the sameb power [under the] the Gospell [as there was] under the law. My first reason is this. Wee know, that the Magistracie of the old Testament was appointed, instituted, and directed by God himself. The Magistracie under the Gospell is chosen [by men], and they are vested with that power which they have from men. Now God may bee his owne carver. If hee will create and sett uppe Magistrates hee may give them what power hee pleases, and give them charge to exercise such a power as hee shall conferre uppon them. And then further  there is this. There is a peculiar and speciall reason why Magistrates under the law should bee invested with such a power in matters of religion, and that reason being chang'd under the new Testament the consideration will nott hold; itt will nott paralell heere. The reason is this. Wee know the land of Canaan, and indeed all thinges in itt, nott only those that were . . . .a poetically, butt the land and Nation and people, was typicall of Churches, and [typical] of the Churches of Christ under the Gospell, of the purity of them and holinesse of them. Canaan is the Kingdome of Heaven as wee all generally know.b There was a necessity, that land being a type of perfect holinesse and of the Kingdome of Heaven, that there should bee lawes and ordinances of that nature which should keepe all thinges as pure and free to worshippe as possibly might bee. Otherwise the visage,c the lovelinesse of the type, would have bin defac't. Itt would nott have answer'd God's designe in itt. Now unlesse wee shall suppose that the lands and state[s] under the Gospell are typicall alsoe, there is noe reason that wee should thinke to reduce them to those termesd [as the land of Canaan was], or by such wayes [as the land of Canaan was]. That is by forcible meanes, by stronge hand, as God did then order and use for the clearing of that land, of that naked piece, which hee intended should bee a type of that whole estate of thinges in his Kingdome and his Church. And that's another thinge. Inasmuch as Magistrates now in [being are under] the Gospell, they are from the first,—and soe consequently to the lowest, for they have all their descent from him—[all instituted by man]. If soe bee wee shall conceive they have power from him, itt should bee part of that power which is putt into him, and vested  uppon him who made them and sett [them] uppe in the place of Magistrates.a For that you were pleas'd to suggest in another parte of your discourse, that there is a certain [inherent] power in Magistracy;b for man marks the case and God putts in the jewell, men present and God impowers. I doe nott conceive there is any such thinge in itt, for then there was a necessity that the extent of the Magistraticall power should bee the same throughout the world. Wheras if you looke into the state of all Nations, [you will see] that the power that is putt into the hands of Kinges and princes is moulded and fashioned by the people; and there is scarce any two places in the world where the power[s] of the rulers are the same. Magistrates have soe much power as the people are willing to give them. If [it be] soe now, then if a body of people, as the commonalty of this land, if they have nott a power in themselves to restraine such and such thinges, [as] matters concerning false worshippe, amongst themselves, certaine itt is, that they cannott derive any such power to the Magistrate, butt hee does act itt of himself, and by an assuming unto [himself] that which was never given unto him. There is much more to bee spoken in this point.
The Arguments to abate what the Commissary Generall said are many.
I shall speake butt to one branch, and the last thinge mentioned: that the Magistrate hath noe other power butt what is conveyed to him by the people; for that I thinke is the [great] consideration. Forc what the Commissary was pleased to say as in relation to the Jewes, wee doe nott beleive that all that was there was typicall, butt much [was] rather morall, judiciall; butt that such a thinge was then in practice as to putt a power in the Magistrate to have somethinge to doe about religion about matters of God. [I]  will take uppe this consideration: that that fundamentall principle of a Commonwealth to act what they are pleas'd to act, does nott in the least lie in the Ministeriall power butt in the Legislative power; and if so itt lie[s] in the people. If soe, then [I would ask], whether itt doe nott lie in the power of the people to consider any thinge that may tend to the publique weale and publique good, and make a law for itt, or give a power [for it]. Whatsoever a company of people gather'd together may judge tending to the publique good, or the Common weale, that they have a liberty [to do], soe longe as itt is nott sinfull. They may putt this into the Ministeriall power to attend itt. Now Sir, suppose this bee laid downe as another principle, [I would ask] whether may nott a company [of people] conclude together and sitt downe in a Commonwealth to doe what may bee done in a lawfull way for the preserving and feeding of the bodie to their good.a That the thinges of our God, itt is that which is of publique good and publique concernement, and amonge all other comforts of life I looke uppon this as one, aswell as my house and foode and raiment.b
A second consideration may bee this: that there may bee such [and such] sins for which God will take account and make miserable this Commonwealth, those [men] being Christians, or [even] if they have the light of nature [only]. By the light of nature wee are able to say for such thinges God will plague a Nation, and judge a Nation. A companie of men mett together to consult for common good doe pitch uppon such thinges as doe concerne the Commonwealth. They would doe what they can to prevent such sins or provocacions as may [make judgments] come downe uppon their heads. In this case I doe nott goe about to say this, that a Magistrate, as if hee had an edict from heaven, should oppose this [or that]; butt that the people making of them,c if itt bee lawfull for  them to make such conclusions or constitutions to avoide such evills, the Magistrate may lawfully exercise that which they may lawfully make; and therfore I say itt was once exercised under the Jewish Commonwealth. Then [if the end of a Commonwealth be to provide] for common good, and if the thinges of God [and blessings] appertayning to them bee a good to bee wish't; if they doe nott [only] tend to that [common good], butt prevent the evill and judgements of God, I know nothing butt in conclusion there may bee some power made uppe in the Magistrate as may tend to itt.
I suppose the Gentleman that spoke last mistakes the Question. Hee seemes to speake as in relation to the peoples giving that power the Gentleman spoke before, butt to that which hee spoke this may bee answer'd de futuro.a That itt is nott lawfull to intrust the Magistrate with such a power. That itt was nott meerly typicall. The Question was, whether itt were morall? If itt were nott morall itt were [not] perpetuall. If itt were morall itt must goe to all Magistrates in the world. That the Magistrate should act to his conscience, destroy and kill all men that would nott come to such a worshippe as hee had. God hath nott given a command to all Magistrates to destroy idolatry, for in consequence itt would destroy the world. To that which the Gentleman said, that the people might conferre such a power uppon the Magistrate in relation to a common good, I answer: that matters of religion or the worshippe of God are nott a thinge trustable, soe that either a restrictive or a compulsive power should make a man to sin. To the 2d thinge: that [there might be such a power] nott only in relation to a common good, butt to the prevention of evill; because by the Magistrates preventing such thinges as are contrary to the light of nature—To that I answer itt is nott easily determinable by the light of nature what is sin; and if the Gentleman speake of  thinges betweene man and man, of thinges that tend to [destroy] humane society, hee is besides the Question; if concerning matters of the worshippe of God, itt is an hard thinge to determine [by the light of nature.] Itt is nott easy by the light of nature to determine there is a God. The Sunne may bee that God. The Moone may bee that God. To frame a right conception or notion of the first being, wherin all other thinges had their being, is nott by the light of nature. Indeed if a man consider there is a will of the Supreame cause, itt is an hard thinge for [him by] the light of nature to conceive how there can bee any sin committed; and therfore the Magistrate cannott easily determine what sins are against the light of nature, and what nott. And to both of those considerations together this may bee said. Supposing both these thinges were thus, yett [to give the Magistrate this power] is butt to putt the Magistrate in a probable condition to doe good, or in a capacity probably to prevent sin. Because the Magistrate must bee conceived to bee as erroneous as the people by whome hee is restrain'd, and more probable to erre then the people that have noe power in their hands.a The probability is greater that hee will destroy what is good then prevent what is evill. Soe that to both of them they doe nott putt the Commonwealth into soe much as a probability of any good by such a trust committed to them.
I shall desire butt a worde or two. Truly I did indeavour when I began to goe in the way that men might judge whether there was weight in what was said in the reply; and I perceive there was noe other ground laid then what I said, [or] then what Mr. Nye did adde further as a rationall satisfaccion to men why such a thinge might bee intrusted. Butt I suppose the grounds of this are such  as to lay a ground uppon conscience why itt is or should bee the duty of Magistrates in a Commonwealth to use what power they have for the restrayning of such thinges asa sins against the first Table, [and] practices forbidden in the first Table; and I would very faine once heare somebody to answer to these grounds that I lay to that. I have heard an answer to one of those grounds: that thinges are subject to men's judgements, . . . . to the judgement of the Magistrates, and to the conviction of the subject. Butt I have heard none uppon the Scripture ground, and I would heare something of that. 1. That in the state of the Jewes the Magistrate there as a Magistrate,—and as a Magistrate nott of a Church only butt as a Magistrate of a Nation—hee had [the] power and [the] right [to restrain such things]—nay itt was a duty uppon him, hee was injoyn'd to itt, and when hee did itt hee was commended for itt, and when hee neglected itt hee was condemn'd and brought to ruine for itt—and [it was] to bee exercised to others then to those that were members of the Church only.b That this therfore which was the rule then, is a rule to a Magistrate as a Magistrate [now], and as the Magistrate of a Kingdome or a Nation. That [which] was then a rule to them that were them [Magistrates] to deserve this commendation if they did itt, and reproof if they did itt nott, is a rule to Magistrates under the Gospell, unlesse in such thinges the evill or good wherof as then was taken away [by the coming of Christ.] If the thinge which hee had a power to restraine [was temporarily or typically evil], then I agree that by the coming of Christ in the flesh itt was taken away. Butt if the thinge were morally and perpetually evill, that which was the ground of the duty [then] will remaine the ground of the duty still, then I conceive the duty as to such thinges remaines the same still. I would I could expresse itt shorter—butt men may take itt shorter,—Butt I would have some answer [these grounds] that is deny that the Magistrates had power to restraine, or [assert that they exercised it not] as Civill Magistratesb of a civil  society, and [that it] extended only over the Members of ana Ecclesiasticall Society; and to shew mee some grounds why if itt were a duty then itt should bee alter'd now, and as subject to men to judge of.
The businesse [as] you seeme to state [it] is thus: that in the State of the Jewes there was a Magistrate, and that Magistrate did this and that [to them] that did nott act according to the Jewish religion.
I will agree [that] all that was in the Jewish religion, the good or evill whereofb did tend to typicall institution is nott a rule of our practice.
Why should nott the Civill Magistrate in this time punish any man for walking contrary to those rules for which the Jewes were punished?
Those thinges which the Magistrates of the Jewes did punish as evill, if they bee of the grounds and evill as they were then—
Why will you nott destroy the Turke and the Jewes, and all others as they did the Canaanites?
I would offer this to the consideration of our worthy freinds that are heere.
You say that which was commanded to the Civill Magistrates of the Jewes that is of [moral] right, that is alsoe to bee continued amongst us. I shall offer this objection as to that: that those thinges  that are of morall right as wee conceive, and that they did practice in their religion, were commanded imediately from God; if they were commanded to them imediately from God, without any injunction to bee practized by their successors, and that they should practice the same thinge, then your argument holds good, otherwise nott. My meaning is this. Wee know itt was of morall right, that noe man should kill his owne sonne. Abraham had an injunction to the contrary. God may give out injunctions to his owne will and pleasure, face to face, to any particular person, and to bee obeyed by that particular person, [even if contrary to] those thinges that are of morall right. Itt is of morall right I should preserve my childe, and doe him all the good I can doe. Yett because God did command a contrary thinge itt was practised. Soe on the other side, if God will command thinges to bee done [by particular magistrates], they doe nott conclude all successors of [those] Magistrates that are in the same power.
The Doctor sayes, if wee can shew that those commands are now binding uppon Magistrates hee'le grant us the Question as for his parte. Truly I have this to offer. Itt will bee much in compliance with what the Commissary General [said]. There were three lawes amonge the Jewes, the Ceremoniall, Judiciall, and Morall Lawes: I suppose the Judiciall law as to the painsa of itt was a fenceb and guard to the Ceremoniall and Morall law. [In the first place] the law doth aime att obedience to itt, and in the second place a punishment to itt's dissobedience. I conceive the punishment of the Ceremoniall law was nott [a part] of the Morall law itt self, butt [a fence] of the purity of the Jewes.c Soe farre as the Judiciall [law] was a fence and out worke to the  Ceremoniall law [it] is falne with the Ceremonialla law. Soe farre as itt was a fence and outworke to the Morall law itt stands with the Morall law, and that still bindes uppon men. Soe [that part of] the Judiciall law that was a fence to that, is still the duty of Magistrates.
As farre as I remember the Commissary Generall offer'd two thinges: and the first was, whether that this Judiciall law for the Magistrate to punish thinges which were sin, sin against God, those things in the old Testament mentioned are not commanded by God. And the 2d, whether they are taken away, and soe have noe relation to the Magistrates under the Gospell. Now to the first, I shall give you the ground why those lawes or commands and that Judiciall law given under the time of the Law hath noe reference to us under the Gospell. I might give you particular grounds, butt one principall ground of that I shall give you is this, as one ground of that which is given already. As itt is Morall itt should have bin given to all states as well as to the Jewes. Butt the ground is this, that the law of the Jewes is nott binding to us under the Gospell. If itt bee I shall then thus inferre, that the Magistrate hath his power from Divine Institution, and soe hath his power from God, and nott from the Agreement of the people, and if soe then they must come to have the same claime from God. If hee have his Commission from God lett him shew itt, soe say I, if hee have his Commission from God wee have nothing to doe to limitt him.b
The 2d thinge that I would minde you then itt is that wee generally agree in, [and it has been] often minded this day: that the Judiciall law to the Jewes is abrogated to us in the Gospell. I meane in respect of the circumstances of itt, though in respect of the truth of itt there is a Judiciall law to bee executed uppon  the people nott in the way the Jewes did. I shall give you the grounds of itt. One ground is this, that there are some thinges mencioned that was given as commands to Magistrates in the Judiciall law to punish, with which Magistrates in the New Testament have nothing to doe.a I shall minde two in particular. The first is that [sin] of Idolatry which was punished with death in the old Testament. Idolaters are to bee putt to death. That under the Gospell the Gospell is soe farre from giving that liberty much lesse power unto a Magistrate to punish an Idolater with death. To mee it is very clear in these words of the Apostle in 1 Corinthians vii.,b that if a man or woman had a wife or husband that was an Idolator they were to live with them, and nott to punish them according to the law of the Jewes. The 2d thinge I shall minde to you is that of Adultery. Adultery was [under the Law] to bee punished with death. If wee looke to the Judiciall law wee must bee exact as to every particular of itt. Wee shall finde, that this law was done away. The woman that was taken in Adultery was brought to Christ, and they told him that Moses' law was to putt her to death. Christ answers, "Hee that is without sin lett him throwe the first stone att her." Now I looke uppon it to be mysticall. To mee itt was this: that the Gospell would admitt of noe such thinge as this [Judicial Law], butt that there was a New law; and in the Epistles, there was rules given for the excommunication of Adulterers, and [persons guilty of] Incest, and the like, which gives mee ground to judge that the appointing of death under the Old Testament, and the like [penalties to] those which commit such offences doth relate to excommunication.c
I am nott satisfied as to the thinge, and therfore I shall nott use  any argument as from my self; butt having heard some [use an] argument that is nott answer'd I shall desire to hinte itt againe. I shall gather itt uppe in few wordes. That which in the Morall law is injoyn'd unto the Jewes is still of perpetuall use amongst us under the Gospell. Butt restriction in the Morall law is enjoyn'd unto the Jewes, as in the 4th. Commandement. Therfore restriction is in perpetuall use now under the Gospell. This I conceive to bee the summe of what you have from the 4th Commandement. To mee itt seemes to bee of some force. There is some thing hinted of that which was typicall, and the like, butt nothing as to this argument from the Morall law.
Because this Gentleman doth relate an Argument from mee, I'le tell you how I putt itt.
That which was evill in the time of the Jewes, and remaines as evill now, and hath the same ground of evill now that itt had then, and especially if such a thinge as was evill even before that law [was] given; for such a thinge what was the duty of a Magistrate to restraine then [remains his duty to restrain now], though I cannott say to restraine itt with the same penalty. For the imposing of a penaltie was judiciall, butt the imposing of a restriction was nott judiciall butt perpetuall. This I take for granted: that [what] was evill then and remaines uppon the same ground equally evill now, that if the Jewish Magistrate ought to restraine that even in persons nott under the Ecclesiasticall Jurisdiction, soe ought Christian Magistrates to restraine itt, if they bee Christians, even in those that are nott under the Ecclesiasticall Jurisdiction.
Though itt bee supposed and granted, that the same thinges [which] are evill now as they were under the law [are] to bee  punished now as they were [then], butt if God hath ordain'd new kinde of punishments [for them] to bee punished with, wee cannott suppose that they are punishable with both punishments. The latter does dissannull the former. If hee that blasphemes is to bee cast out to Satan, that hee may learne nott to blaspheme, itt is impossible that this Commandement of God should bee putt in execution if a blasphemer should bee putt to death.
I thinke if wee were now uppon the question of what an Ecclesiasticall Judicature or Church Magistrate should doe, itt would very well bee that that should bee the rule that Mr. Goodwin sayes: that such punishments should bee used by the Ecclesiasticall Officers (and only such) as are warranted by the Gospell, uppon which the outward calling of the Church hath itt's ground; butt itt is concerning a Civill Magistrate, or a Magistrate of a meere civill constitution. I say this, if any man doe butt consider, that in the Gospell there is nothing that is to bee called and taken as of positive institution, butt that [which is expressly so intended]; I will nott desire that itt may bee taken any advantage of. Butt parts of the Gospella are either historicall, expressing what Christ did when hee was in the flesh and how hee was brought to death, as the fower Evangelists, and the Acts of the Apostles. Or else they are exhortatory, written by way of advice to the Churches of the Saints in the severall parts of the world; and they are written to them, [partly] as applyed to what was in generall to bee the condition of all Saints in all ages to the worlds end, and partly [as applyed to] what thinges were the condition of all the saints to whome these Epistles were written. As for the historicall parte of the Gospell—or Propheticall—that's the Revelation—I suppose noe man from the historicall parte will goe to make itt necessary, that in the historicall parte there should bee  anythinge of institution of Ecclesiasticall or other Magistrates. In the Epistolary parte, if wee first consider that all the Saints or Churches to whome these Epistles were written were all rather under a condition of persecution under Heathen Magistrates, then having a power of Magistracie in their owne hands, wee have noe reason to thinke that the Epistles written to them should bee intended as to give the rules concerning Magistracie. Butt since there was a rule concerning Magistracie, that is [a rule] by which heea might judge what was evill and what was good—First, Had from the light of nature. 2dly, Had a more cleare foundation in the Morall law (as they call itt) that gave grounds which way the Magistrate might goe—theyb doe as well leave the Magistrate [free] in the punishment of those thinges that are in the first Table uppon prudentiall grounds, and nott tying them uppe to the judiciall grounds of the Jewish Commonwealth, butt when there should bee any Christian Magistrates leaving them to those foundations and rules of their proceeding which they had a ground for in nature, leaving that which was good or evill to restraine or nott.c I conceive the whole drift of the Gospell hath bin to apply [restraint] in that kind to what thinges are either [un] fitt to bee used amongst men in society as Christians; or else thinges that were the common duty of men nott [merely of] Magistrates [to restrain]; though itt sayes something of that, and if any will say I shall thinke itt to bee very good. Butt this I shall wish to bee consider'd: whether in relation to what is said in the Gospell, if the penaltie does cease then the punishment of itt att all does cease? Then I would faine know, whether by the same ground that Idolatry should [not] bee punished [with death], murther should nott bee punished with death? And [I would fain know] what you can imagine should exempt the Magistrate under the Gospell from punishing Idolaters, should excuse the Magistrate  under the Gospell, or should deterre him from punishing them with death, or other punishment which under the judiciall law is punishable with death? Whether the same thinge will nott serve to this, that now even for murther, for theft, for all those thinges that are evills against men, which in that law had their particular [punishments] prescribed, whether itt would nott hold as well for this, that now there ought to bee a libertie under the Gospell, itt is a time of mercie, and that wee ought nott to punish those thinges?
Those punishments by death of murther and the like, the originall of the equitie and justice was nott to the Jewes only, butt they were by the law of nature. [The old Testament says:] By whome man's bloud is shed. But longe before this [murder was punished by with death].
Wee shall desire noe more [than this]. That if the ground of that which made itt sin, and the ground of the punishment does remaine the same now, then the sin is to bee restrain'd as itt was then, and that which was sin then is sin now.
If blasphemy bee punished with two punishments, a sin may bee punished with two punishments; as for example theft. If a man were a Church Member hee might bee excommunicated first, and hang'd afterwards. That was nott a fallacie.
There were 2 places that Mr. Collier had [alleged]. They must nott punish Idolaters then because the Magistrate was soe.a Butt for the woman taken in Adultery, this was the reason that Christ did nott judge her, because hee would nott meddle with Magistraticall matters. All the while Christ lived noe Jewish rite was abolished.
I humbly conceive, that while there is a new saving made whether that such thinges bee null'd by the Gospell, the ground [of your argument is that] which the Commissary Generall sayes.
This is your Argument: that which was sin then, and is now sin, and ought to be punished then, ought to bee punished now. I suppose there is noe consequence att all [in this argument, that] if itt were punished then itt ought to bee punished now. Because itt was [punished then] uppon a judiciall law, which was morall, butt nott naturally morall,a and yourself said, that the punishment was nott naturally [moral]. If soe I would desire to know how wee should distinguish which parte of itt was naturally Morall, and what was nott. The Decalogue containes the whole law. If you will extend itt beyond itt I would know where you will terminate itt. Besides, if itt were naturally Morall, you must found it upon nature. If itt had bin given as a thinge naturally morall, and [to a magistrate] as a magistrate, then itt must belonge to every Magistrate that was in the world, and then you must hold that God had ordain'd such a power to bee in every Magistrate. I must confesse, that what was given to them was as Jewish Magistrates, butt nott quatenus Magistrates. Not determining what a Magistrate shall bee you leave us to an uncertainty. Wee finde noe such power att all in any Magistrate.
That if this power should have bin destinated in all Magistrates, then every Magistrate in the world had bin bound to have putt all his subjects to death.
If I should reply to what was said, and then adjourne the Court, itt would bee thought nott faire; and therefore I shall say nothing  in the world to answer to this, butt leave men to judge whether that which hath bin said bee an answer or noe.
That the Kinge bee forthwith sent for to bee brought under safe guards, to Windsor Castle, and there to be secur'd in order to the bringing of him speedily to justice.
|Lt. Col. Venables.||Lt. Col. Cooke.|
|Lt. Col. Goffe.||Major Barton.|
|Major Swallow.||Major Cambridge.|
These are, any three or more of them, to meete at Mr. Hunt his lodging in Whitehall, upon the riseing of this Councell, and thenceforth to meete de die in diem as they shall agree, to consider of the best ways and grounds for the speedy bringing of the King to Justice, and to take advice and assistance therein of any such persons as they shall finde fitt and able to promote this business, and to make some report of their proceedings upon Tuesday next in the afternoone to this Counsell.
The like concerning Duke Hamilton, Lord Goreing, Lord Capell, Lord Loughborow, and withall to consider their cases in respect of Articles given them.
That the Earle of Holland, Sir Lewis Dives, Sir John Owen, Sir Hen: Lingen bee propounded to bee brought to speedy justice.a
That Major Boswell, [Mr. Thomas] Holder, Colonel Thomas, Colonel Mouldsworth, Colonel Boynton bee speedily proceeded against as spyes, and the Judge Advocate to prepare a charge against them.
In pursuance of these inclosed Resolucions of the Generall Councell of Officers I have sent Colonel Harrison with a convoy of Horse and Draggoons to guard the King from Hurst Castle to Windsor. I desire you therefore upon receipt hereof that you bring away the person of the King to Windsor Castle, at such tyme, and by such way and marches as Colonel Harrisone shall direct, who is to order the Guardes for the convoying and safe guarding of him, but you are (until forther order) still to continue your care about the person of the King for his necessary accomedation and the beter secureing of him from escape.
For Lt. Col. Cobbett.
Captain Merriman &c.
The second Reserve, as to the not impresting of any by sea or land, considered and debated.
Question. Wether wee shall propound in this Agreement any reserve from the power of the Representative in point of impresting men for the Warre.
Passt in the Affirmative.
Question. Wether there shalbe a Reserve from the Representative to impress for Forraigne Services.
Passt in the Affirmative by all.
[Except Colonel Hewson & Scoutmaster Roe.]
Wee doe not impower them to imprest or constraine any person to serve in forraigne warr, either by sea or land, nor for any military service within the kingdome; save that they may take orders for the forming, trayneing, and exerciseing of the people in a Military way, to be in readiness for resisting of forraigne invasions, suppressing of suddaine insurrections, or for assisting in execution of law; provided, that even in such cases none bee compellable to goe out of the county hee lives in, if hee procure another to serve in his roome.a
That this Councell meete againe on Munday next upon the Remainder of the Agreement.
That Dr Pagett, Dr Cox, and Dr Goddard bee added to the  former persons appoynted to goe into London to Colonel Tichburne's house about the first Reserve on Tuesday at 9 of the clock in the morninge.
|Major Carter }||added of the Army.|
|Captain Hodden }|
That at the meeteing of the Councell on Munday they bee remembred of this appointment.
The Third Reserve allowed and passt thus.
That after the time herein limited for the commencement of the first Representative, none of the people bee at any time questioned for any thinge said or done in reference to the late Warres, or publique differences, otherwise then in execucion or pursuance of the determinacions of the present House of Commons, against such as have adheered to the Kinge, or his interest, against the people: and saving that accomptants for publique moneys received shall remayne accomptable for the same.
4. The 4th Reserve laid aside.
The 5th suspended, as not proper to the place in which it is sett, coming in among the reserves.a
Question. Wether the sixth Reserve shalbe waved or not.
Soe that it was carried in the Negative.
The Councell in relacion to this business of the Agreement meete on Thursday next.
Ordred to bee added to the Committee to goe into London.
Memorandum at the meeteing to morrow to consider of some moderate men to meete in London at Colonel Tichburne's.
Tuesday. Day of Humiliation at Wilmott House.
|Major Coleman }||added to those formerly appointed to meete at Colonel Tichburne's.|
|Captain Spencer }|
|Mr. Cooly }|
Most thankfully I acknowledge your respects enhaunct by that your unanimous electing mee, whome yow were pleased to appoynt one of your servants in Parliament, which favour of yours haveinge bin ever in myne eye hath comanded from mee what ever my skill or ability could enable mee unto. This I hope I may modestly and safely say, your business I have intended, without designing aney private advantage of my owne by place of honour or proffitt, and have endevoured soe to smooth and playne my actions, that although in these traduceing tymes 'tis impossible to avoyde, yet may keepe  dirt from stickinge on me. I dare not (deare Friends) soe much weaken my interest in your affections to suppose this declaratory of my selfe necessarie as to you, but shall meane it to those who being strangers to mee and my actions may have just title to it. That which at this time I shall make yours is breifely and exactly to acquaint you, that the 7th of this instant December, comeing as at other tymes, to doe you the best service I could, I was at the stepp, which leads to the outward doore of the House of Commons stopp'd by a guarde supposed to bee of the army, who asked mee whether I was a Parliament man, my answer, I was one; then they demaunded my name, I told it them; upon that a long paper was brought out by an officer (as I supposed him) which when they had perused, they told mee I must withdrawe, alledging noe reason at all for it. Knowing it to be both imprudent and vaine to contest with such force I did withdrawe into Westminster hall, where I mett with divers Gentlemen who had received the same usage, with them I joyned in a letter to the Speaker of the House of Commons, telling him what interruptions wee had in the way of our duties, and desireing him to acquaint the House with it, which I may hope hee did. This hold I myselfe obleiged to doe, that soe your undoubted priviledge might be asserted, which is, as part of the free borne people of England, to send your members to act in the Commons House of the Parliament of England without molestation or interruption; though thus farr I had proceeded, yet could not thinke my self to have but very incompleatly discharged my duty, the principle part, as I conceive, being undone, that was acquainting you with it who imployed mee, whose servant I am; haveing faithfully presented you with the whole matter I leave it to you. This consideration I hope in the vacancy of my imployment, will in your thoughts acquitt mee from any share of blame for any inconvenience may fall on you, by free quarter, immoderate impositions or the like, force debarring mee from being there where your commands doe place mee for  preventing of such extremities, which to doe my selfe but right I may say I was in a faire way of effectuating, and had made a good progresse in itt when the aforemention'd interrupcions happened, and of this I have very good and plentifull witness. At what time when it shall please the gratious disposer of all things soe to order affaires, that I may with your honour and freedome (for yours it is), I say when thus I may bee permitted to doe you service, I am ready; till that time and alwayes, whether in power or out of power, I have and hope ever shall have an affectionate heart to the reall good of my deare Countrymen the inhabitants of Cheshire, as becomes an Englishman, a Cheshireman, and as you may justly expect from him whome you have obliged. Your faithfull servant as long as life last
Indorsed. For my deare Countreymen the Inhabitants of Cheshire. This is a coppie of a coppie attested under the hands of Peter Drinkewater, John Leigh.
I heare inclosed send yow a true copey of the ingagement wee tooke on board the Unickorne before wee sett saille of this last expedition out of the river of Thames, which engagement they did unanimously stand up to mayntayne agaynst the revolted fleete. Sir, the principall motive which induces mee to send itt you is, first, in the way of an acount, that you may thereby see this part of our actions; secondly, that our men for their fidelety to give them further encorigement may see that their names are enrowld in the army; thirdly, to stirre up others when occasion shall  bee to act by theire examples. I besech yow have me excuesed for this my troubling you, for the premises aforesayd moved my presompshion, humbly requesting yow to present my service to his excellency, I rest
From abourd the Unicorne.
For the worshipfull Jo. Rushworth, Esqr, secretary to his Excellencie the Lord Generall, att the Head Quarters nigh London.
An expedient upon the first Reserve concerning Religion brought in and debated.b
Question. Whether the particulars now debated shall bee referred or noe.
Past in the Negative.
All but Officers to goe forth.
Question. Wether the word Morall shalbe in the paper now read or noe.
Soe that it was carried for the word Morall to bee left out.
That the Representatives have, and shalbee understood to have, the supreame trust in order to the preservacion and government of the whole; and that their power extend, without the consent or concurrence of any other person or persons, to the enacting, altering, repealeing, and declareing of lawes, to the enacting and abolishing of the Courts of Justice and publique officers, and to the highest and finall judgment concerning all naturall and civill things, and to whatsoever in such things is not herein excepted and reserved from them as followeth.a
Question. Wether under this Generall Article of the power of your Representatives now agreed on, there shalbe any reserve subjoyned concerning Religion.
Soe that it was carried to have noe Reserve.
The Councell adjourned till Saturday.
Col. Thomlinson is to bee speeded away to Windsor with instructions to himself, Lt. Col. Cobbett, and Captain Merriman, for securing of the Kinge, answerable to the severall Heads you desire resolution in. Soe soone as hee comes you may come away, and  your presence heere is both desired and needed. Butt before you come away, wee desire you to appoint 3 or 4 troopes out of your convoy (of the surest men and best officer'd) to remaine about Windsor, to whome you may assigne quarters in the next parts of Middlesex and Surrey, advising with the Governour therin, and to keepe guard by a troope att a time within the Castle, and for that purpose to receive-orders from Col. Thomlinson; and wee desire you alsoe out of the cheif of the Kinges servants last allowed (uppon advice with Lt. Col. Cobbett and Capt. Merriman) to appoint about the number of 6 (such as are most to bee confided in, and who may best supply all offices) to stay with and attend the Kinge for such necessary uses, and the rest wee desire you to send away, nott as discharged from the benefitt of their places, butt only as spar'd from extraordinary attendance. This is thought fitt to avoide any numerous concourse which many servants, with their followers and their relations or acquaintance, would draw into the Castle; and for the said reason itt is wish't that such of the servants retain'd as are least sure, and nott of necessity to bee constantly in the Kinges lodginges, may bee lodged in the Towne, or the lower parte of the Castle, wherin the Governour is to bee advised with.
Capt. Mildmaya (wee presume) will bee one of those you'le finde to retaine. The Dragoones of your convoy send away to the quarters formerly intended, which (as wee remember) were in Bedfordshire. Wee blesse God by whose providence you are come on soe well with your charge. Wee remaine
To Col. Harrison at Windsor, or by the way to Farnham thitherward.
Capt. Brayfeild of Col. Hewson's Regiment with his owne and two other companies of Foote are ordered to come to you, and to receive orders from you for the better securing of the Castle and the person of the Kinge therin. You may quarter them in the towne and in Eytona (if nott in the Castle). Col.: Harrison is alsoe writt unto to appoint 3 or 4 troopes of Horse out of his convoy to remaine neere Windsor, and to quarter in the next parts of Middlesex and Surrey, as you shall advise, and keepe guard by a troope att a time within the Castle, Itt is thought fittest, that the Horse guard or parte of itt bee kept within the upper Castle, and that att least one company of Foote att a time bee uppon guard there, and that the Bridge betwixt the Castles (if you thinke fitt) bee drawne uppe in the night, and kept drawne ordinarily in the day. Alsoe, that noe other prisoners bee lodg'd in that parte of the Castle besides the Kinge, unlesse Duke Hamilton in some close roomes where hee may nott have intercourse with the Kinge, and hee rather to bee in Winchester Castleb (where Sir Thomas Payton was), if you can safelie dispose of the other prisoners elsewhere; butt the Kinge (by all meanes) must bee lodg'd in the upper Castle in some of the safest roomes, and Col. Thomlinson, Lt. Col. Cobbett and Capt. Merriman to have lodginges there, and those Gentlemen of the Army (being about 6 or 7) who are appointed to attend and assist them in the imediate watching about the Kinge to bee alsoe lodged (if itt may bee) in the upper Castle, or att least within the Tower; some of his allowed servants alsoe (that were of imediate attendance about his person) must necessarily bee lodged in the upper Castle, about which Col. Harrison and Lt. Col. Cobbett will advise with you. Col. Thomlinson and with him Lt. Col. Cobbett  and Capt. Merriman are appointed to the charge of the imediate securing of the Kinges person (as you will see by their instructions which they will shew you), and for their assistance and furthrance therin you are desired to appoint such Guards of Foote for the imediate securing of him, and to guard the roomes where hee and they shall lodge, as they shall desire, and that you order those Guards from time to time to observe the orders of Col. Thomlinson, Lt. Col. Cobbett, and Capt. Merriman therin. The Horse alsoe (as to the imediate guarding of the Kinge) are appointed to receive orders from Col. Thomlinson, butt as to the safe-guarding of the Garrison, all (both Horse and Foote) are to bee att your command. Wee thought this distribution better for your ease, and for the leaving you more free to looke to the security of the whole Garrison then to burthen you both with itt, and with the imediate charge of the Kinges person, where you have alsoe soe many prisoners to looke to. Itt is thought convenient that (during the Kinges stay with you) you turne out of the Castle all malignant of Cavalerish inhabitants (except the prisoners), and as many others of loose and idle persons as you can well ridde out, and to stinte the number of prisoners servants to the lowest proportion you well can. You are desired alsoe to restraine any numerous or ordinarie concourse of unnecessary people into that parte of the Castle, of whose affection and faithfulnesse to the publique there is nott good assurance, or who have nott necessary occasions there, and to suffer noe publique preaching in the Chappell, or any like occasion for concourse of people. Tis good the prisoners this while bee strictly kept in, and with-held from intercourse or communication one with another, and that the Guards of the Gates att the upper-Castle have a list of the Kinges allowed servants now retayn'd and their followers, as alsoe of the Officers and Gentlemen of the Army that are to watch the Kinge with their servants, that those Guards may know whome they are ordinarily to lett in, and the Guards att the outer Gate of the lower Castle to have knowledge of the same list, and of all other dwellers and lodgers within the lowest part. The Lord bee with  you and blesse you in this great charge. To his good pleasure I committ you and itt.
For Col. Whitchcott Governour of Windsor Castlea hast these.
The 3 Companies of foote now sent have pay for the present, and shall bee duly supplyed; if you can lodge them within the Castle you shall uppon notice have bedding sent for them.
Instructions for Colonel Thomlinson, Lieutenant Colonel Cobbet, Captain Merriman, and Captain Brayfield, in and for the immediate securing of the King's person from escape.
1. It is to bee understood by you that as to this charge and in the pursuance of those instructions Colonel Thomlinson is to command in chiefe. Lieutenant Colonel Cobbett next, and Captayne Merryman third, and Captain Brayfield last, and in such subordinacion what is herein directed and committed to you is to bee understood.
2. The Troopes of Horse which shalbe left by Colonel Harrison about Windsor to keepe guard within the Castle, are to receive orders from you or any of you in the subordinacion aforesaid, and the Governor is to order such foote Guards in and about the roomes where the Kinge shalbe kept, for the imediate securing of him, as you shall desire, and the Guards soe appointed are to observe your direccion herein; but as to the safe guarding of the Garrison all both foote and horse are to bee at the Gouernor's command, and you are to give orders to the horse accordingly (if there bee occasion).
3. Whereas there are some Gentlemen belonging to the Army appointed to bee assistant unto you, and to receive direccions from you in this businese, you are to take orders that two of them with one of your selves (if health permitt) may nightly watch in his chamber or at the doores thereof, and at least one of the three soe watching to bee within the chamber; and in the day time two of the said Gentlemen, with one of your selves, to bee continually in the roome where hee is, or in view of him, or (when he shalbe private at his devotion, to bee attended at the dore of the roome). But in case of necessary hinderance to any of those Gentlemen in their course you may admitt one of his allowed servants who shalbe willing, or some commission officer of the Horse or foote attending the garrison, to watch in his stead that shalbe soe hindred.
4. You are to suffer noe lettres or writings to pass to or from the Kinge, save what you shall first reade, and soe fitt to pass, and of any writeing which shall be tendered to pass to or from him you are to take a coppie, if you see cause.
5. You are not to admitt any private discourse betwixt him and any other person, save what one of yourselves or one of the aforesaid Gentlemen shall heare.
6. You are to restrayne any numerous or ordinary concourse of people into his presence, or that part of the Castle where hee shall lodge, and to that purpose to desire the Governor's assistance  therein, and his strict care to restrayne the ordinary access of any such people into the Castle, of whose affeccions and faithfulness to the publique there is not good assurance, or who have not necessary occasions there.
7. You are not to permit the Kinge to walke out of the Castle beyond the Tarras walke.
8. It is referred to your discretion and care to take off and cause to bee forborne all matter of unnecessary state, which might occasion needless charge, take up much roome, or induce recourse of people into his presence.a
At a Generall Councell held there, Ordered that Jon Rushworth Esq., his Excellencie's Secretary, signe these Instruccions now agreed uppon, in the name of his Excellency and the Councell, as at other times,
You are on sight hereoff to repayre to Windsor Castle, where you are to shew unto Lt. Col. Cobbett, Captain Merriman, and Captain Brayfield this lettre, with the instruccions to your selfe and them heere inclosed concerning the secureing of the King's person, and you are with them to imploy your utmost care and indeavour for the immediate secureing of the King's person from escape, and are  hereby impowered in all things necessary to that end. In pursuance where off the said instruccions here inclosed are to be observed by your selfe and them untill further orders; I remayne
For Colonel Thomlinson.a
The Sixth Reserve in the Representative read and debated. Afterwards read thus
(As an expedient.)
That the said Representatives may not exercise the power of  imediate Judgment in particular questions of right or wronge between one private person and another. Nor may they give imediate judgment upon any man's person or estate for any offence which does not extend imediately to the hurt or damage of the publique, nor for any such offence may they proceede to the takeing away of life or limbe, unless before the fact done it were soe provided against by express law then in force, nor may they inflict or awarde other punishment for such an offence not soe provided against beforehand, save where it is clearely against the generall law of humane society, and where the vindicacion or secureinge of the publique interest does require such Justice.
1. Question. Whether the Sixth Reserve shall pass as it now stands or noe.
Carried in the Negative, Nemine contradicente.
That the Representative may not give Judgment upon any man's person or estate where noe law hath bin before provided, save only in calling to account and punishing publique officers failing in their trust.
2. Question. Whether this clause now read shalbe put to the question as part of the Reserve or noe.a
Soe that it was carried in the Affirmative.
Question 3. Whether this clause now read shall pass as part of the Reserve as it is.
Soe that it was carried in the Affirmative as part of the Reserve.
C. E. petition of the well affected in Newport Pagnell and parts adjacent.
To his Excellency the Lord Fairfax, Generall of the Parliament forces &c. and to the officers of your Excellencie's Army now mett in Generall Councell. (Read.)
4. Question. Whether there shall bee any addition made to the 6th reserve or noe.
Soe that it passt for noe addition to that Reserve.
Adjourned till Fryday about 10 of the clock in the morneinge.
The Petitioners call'd in.
Answer returned by Comm. Generall Ireton.
Wee have read your petitition, and the Councell have appointed mee to returne you this answer for the present. That they doe very kindlie resent, & thankfullie accept those expressions first in the preamble of the petition of your affections & faithfulnesse in relation to the publique Justice & the liberties of the Kingdome, and for your desire in the prayer of the petition, concerning our prosecution of justice & freedome, they doe heartily close with your desires in itt, & shall indeavour to prosecute the same as God shall direct & inable them in all honest wayes.
And for the last part of your prayer of the petition, for mediating with the Parliament concerning those particulars following, I am to acquaint you, that as the most part of the particulars are such as relate to publique justice & a generall settlement of the liberties of the Kingdome, the Councell hath taken many of them already into consideration, and are in consideration of some other thinges remayning, which soe soone as they have passed the Councell you will see publique, and wee hope to your satisfaction; and the other  particulars that you desire mediation in particularly, either concerning the reformation of laws in being, or the making of new, the Councell commanded mee to lett you know that such thinges as those are matters of publique justice & of generall settlement of the liberties of the Kingdome, they shall soe farre as they are proper for their cognizance take them into consideration in their place & time.a
Elizabeth Poole of Abington first spake, to this effect.b
That the businesse was committed to their trust, butt there was a great snare before them.
That God was about to breake the pottesheards of the Earth.
That there should nott bee a sheard left to carry coales now was of finer sort of mettall. I looke uppon all manner of manifestations, formes, and religions which are made uppe in any regard of—
That there might bee a pure life in death—That men might  bee dead unto all their fairest images, and finde the comlinesse in truth.a
After a short speech to this effect, further declaring the presence of God with the Army, and desiring, that they would goe forward and stand uppe for the libertie of the people as itt was their liberty and God had open'd the way to them.
The Commissary Generall said: That for what was said in commendation of the Armie, that they did nott looke for the praise of men; butt for that which shee spoke otherwise, that which shee exprest itt is very good and excellent and worthy consideration.
When I had bin many dayes a Mourner for the land with great and sore lamentation, and indeed a sympathizer with your labours, I had a vision sett before mee which was this, for the end of your labours.
There was a Man, a Member of the Army, that some times had bin shewed mee, [expressing] his respect unto his Country, to its liberty and freedome, which hee should gladly bee a sacrifice for. This persone was sett before mee [on the one hand, representing the body of the Army], and a woman which should signifie the weake and imperfect distressed state of the land on the other hand. This woman was full of imperfection, crooked, weake, sickly, imperfect. I [having the gift of faith upon me for her cure] was to appeale to the body of the Army in this man that hee should improve his faithfulnesse to the Kingdome, by his diligence in the  cure of this person, by the direction which I should give him for her through the guift of God in mee. There was nothing requir'd att his hand more then the act of diligence; that hee should before the Lord, act diligently and faithfully to imploy all meanes which I should by the guift of God direct for her cure; and looke how farre short hee fail'd of the meanes, soe farre short hee should bee of her cure; butt soe farre as hee should bee faithfull, soe farre hee should bee for her consolation. Neverthelesse this I was to shew him: that itt was nott the guift of God in mee, nor the act of diligence in him, butt in reference to that spiritt of eternall power which had called mee to beleive and him to act, neither was hee to bee slack in action, nor I to bee staggering in beleiving.a
I cannott butt give you that impression that is uppon my spiritt in conjunction with that testimonie which God hath manifested heere by an unexpected Providence. What shee hath said being correspondent with what I have made [known] as [manifested] to mee before. The truth is, Itt is true [there are] many thinges in which wee are to take a liberty and use the libertie in reference to the men of the world that wee have to deale withall; butt that principle which is to carry us as in consideration of ourselves before God and the world, [is] after that liberty which the world doeth nott understand. Itt is true wee may use these arguments to satisfie such as understand noe more butt such [things] as the world gives testimonie of;b butt if wee have nott another manner of testimonie, such thinges that God hath by his providence given us satisfaction of, I beleive as shee sayes the conclusion of itt will bee butt fleshly [after] having begun in the spiritt. I thinke every man is to search his owne heart, and to see what is within, and nott [to look for deliverance] from himself or from men, or from outward  meanes; butt from that Kingdome which when itt comes will have noe end. And truly I have had my portion of troubles and thoughts of heart since these thinges have come to their chrysis and to their alteration, and I confesse I can finde nothing that is really and seriously an objection to them butt what does arise from the flesh, which has tempted mee all alonge that might tend to a bearing testimonie against the whole and series of the actions. Certainly these thinges are of God, and 'tis good councill and, 'tis true, that hee that will goe about in a fleshly way to save his life shall loose itt, and hee that will [loose] itt is [in] the way to save [it] . . . them butt they being purified by that fire which is from God and through which all thinges must passe . . . . I doe rejoice to heare what hath bin said, and itt meetes much with what hath bin uppon my heart heertofore and I could nott butt speake what I did to beare witnesse to the same testimonie, and shall rejoice to see itt made out more and more in others.
Itt is true that the Lord hath a controversie with the great and mighty of the earth, with the captaines and rulers.a Hee will contend for his owne name amongst them, butt beleive itt to your consolations who waite uppon him, that itt is nott with you, or with any butt as the captaines and rulers of the earth; you may bee captaines and rulers uppon the earth and maintaine his controversie, butt if you bee the captaines and rulers of the earth his controversie is against you. Wherfore greater is hee that is with you then they that are against you.
If I doe rightly observe what did fall from you, you said, that  one was represented to you on behalf of the Army, and that through their acting such a thinge was to bee accomplished. Itt was given to you to beleive hee should effect [this by] following somethinge that youa ought to suggest unto him. Now that I have to offer unto you is this, whether any thinge was given to you more particularly to expresse then before?
Noe, Sir. For itt was represented to mee as the Church, nott that the Church was confined to this, or that, butt as in the body, butt by the guift and faith of the Church shall you bee guided, which spiritt is in you, which shall direct you.b
For what this woman doth speake of the vision that was sett before her and soe for the judge of spiritts, for ought that I yett see, I see nothing in her butt those [things] that are the fruites of the spiritt of God, and I am therfore apt to thinke soe att the present, being not able to judge the contrary, because mee thinkes itt comes with such a spiritt that does take and hold forth humility and selfe deniall, and that rules very much about the whole that shee hath deliver'd, which makes mee have the better apprehension of itt for the present.c Itt is only God that can judge of spiritts of men and women.
I thinke the summe of that which shee offers, that wee ought to doe for God, and you must goe on in the way, and I thinke the exhortation is very seasonable; and therfore I would have you come to the businesse that is before you, and I hope that God will lett that [counsel] goe alonge with you, that wee doe itt nott as men pleasers and men observers, butt as unto the Lord.d
The 7th Reserve read, [and] passt as it stands nemine contradicente.a
The 8th Reserve read [and] passt in the affirmative, nemine contradicente.
The 8th Article of the Agreement altered, and passed thus:
That the Councell of State (in case of imminent danger or extreame necessity) may in each intervall summon a Representative to bee forthwith chosen and to meete, soe as the Session thereoff continue not aboue fourescore dayes, and soe as it dissolve at least  fifty dayes before the appointed time for the next Bienniall Representative, and upon the fiftieth day soe proceedeing it shall dissolve of course, if not otherwise dissolved sooner.a
The 9th Article of the Agreement read and passed (altered thus):
That all securities given by the publique faith of the Nacion shalbee made good by the next and future Representatives, except to such creditors as have or shall have justly forfeited the same, and saveing that the next Representative may confirme or make null in part or in whole all gifts of lands, money, or offices, or otherwise, made by the present Parliament to any member or attendant to either House.
The 10th Article read, and thus altered and passed. That whosoever shall, by force of Armes, resist the orders of the next, or any future Representative (except in case where such Representative shall expressly render up, or give, or take away the foundations of common right, libertie, and safty contayned in this Agreement) shall forthwith after his or their such resistance loose the benefitt and protection of all the lawes of the land, and shalbe punishable with death as an enemy and traytor to the Nation. Non contradicente.
The fifth reserve (formerly waved) read.
Question. Whether this shall pass as a reserve or noe.
Resolved in the Negative.
The of the Agreement read:
|Com: Generall Ireton.||Lt. Col. Salmon.|
|Colonel Harrison.||Major Barton.|
|Colonel Rich.||Captain Clarke.|
|Sir Hardress Waller.||Captain Deane.|
|Colonel Deane.||Captain Hoddon.|
These or any six of them to meete at Com: Generall Ireton's Quarters to morrow at 10 of the clock in the morneinge, to consider  of a forme of conclusion and subscription to this Agreement as to the officers of the Army. Councell to meete againe on Munday by 10 of the clock in the forenoone.
In primis Sir Robert Harley and Sir William Lewis and other members of Southwales, &c. did impannel themselves in the name of a Comittee of South Wales, and contrary to all ordinances of Parliament, did order in the said committee that all delinquents in South Wales should not bee sequestred, except Papists in armes and such as defended garrisons in the Kings right, on purpose to make such creatures of theire owne members of Counteyes and shires to sitt in the House of Parliament; and were not at all sequestered till now of late Commissioners were sent down by speciall command from the House of Parliament, and some that were sequestred had their sequestracions taken off on purpose to make members to sitt in Parliament, vizt Mr. Lewies in the County of Radnour, and Mr. Rotherway Gwyn who made Majour Robt. Harlow Burges of Radnour, and one Mr. Ansloeb a Irishman Knt. of Radnour shire; and soe look on all South Wales, and yow will hardly heare of a man there that serves in the House, but have either bin made by delinquents, or have bin Comissioners of Aray or otherwise assisting the Kinge in party, the Earle of Carbery having a great hand in makeing of them and alsoe your Comittee men and Justices of Peace, this Earle being Generall of all South Wales for the Kinge.
Item, the Citty of Hereford hath two members that serves in the House for it, one Benjamyne Hoskins always a Comissionour  of array, and one Edm. Weaver a cavalier, both made by delinquents that have bin in armes against the Parliament.
Item, Lemster have two Burges serves for it, Col. Birch and Walter Kerle, lawyer, the first have much enriched him selfe inderectly by the warr, the latter a great Cavalier, and have kept correspoundency with the Enimyes garrisons and by raising moneyes and provision for them: this Lenpster is within this County of Hereford.
Item, the two Knights of the County are Sir Robert Harlow, one who hath much deserted the godley partey, and did solicite and write to divieres delinquents together with his son and papists for their voyces to make his said son Col. Edw. Harlow, Knight of our County of Hereford, contrary to the freedome of the people.
Item, the said Col. Edw. Harlow, Col. Birch, and one John Hackett a Committee man have bought seaven Lordshipps and woods, 3 parts in 4 less then the worthe of it, of the Bishopps lands within the said County, which much hinders the state in paying the publique debts of the Kingdom.
Item, the said Coll. Edw. Harlow and Major Harlow his brother, with Sir Robt. Harlow their father, would never suffer any Comittee man to bee made within the County of Herford but men of their owne creatures, whereby dyvers summs of money have bin receved by the said Col Harlow and Major Harlow, sons to the said Sir Robt, by order of the said Comittees, themselves being two of them.
Item, the said Robt. Harlow hath by his deputies received great sumes of money out of the Bishopps and Deane and Chapter lands, and how that hath bin disposed of few doe know.
Coll. Burch have enriched himselfe from a man that drove packhorses with Manchester ware, his stock I am perswaded not being 200 ɫi., untill in Bristoll hee married a widdowe which was thought to bee worth 1000 ɫi. more, soe that it is guesed hee was full worth 1200 ɫi.; now sence this warr hee hath purchased in London and Herefordshire  6 or 700 ɫi. per annum, and will purchase more besides his said stock, which was abroad at interest is thought still to remaine. Hee seized on all delinquents estates, almost in the taking of Hereford, raysed what money hee pleased to great summs, gott 2 or 3000 ɫi. by dead pay of his regiment in Kent, and divers others wayes, and I am confident he hath given in a very false account, and I believe hee hath receved when hee was Govenour of Hereford and comanded in Kent as much moneyes as his pay did amount unto, never the less hee hath 1800 ɫi. charged upon the Excise, and 750 ɫi. outt of Gouldsmithes Hall, besides hee sould the Castle of Hereford which cost him about 130 ɫi., being a garrison, for 600 ɫi. to Sir Robt. Harlow, on purpose that one Coll. More a creature of the said Sir Robert should comand it. Coll. Massey hath much enriched himselfe by the warre, for affter he came from the voyage against the Scottes (when the Scotts first invaded England when the Papists army went against them some eight yeares since) in which expedicion the said Massy was made Capt. of Pyoneeres by Nicholas Davenant, poet Davenant's brother: I say after which voyage hee had not 12d. some time in his pockett to pay for his dinner, the said Nicholas Davenant being now in London at the Feathers in Longe Aker, as is thought now att this present expecting a comand fram Massey. This Massy did raise vast summes of money by his warantes out of our Herefordsheire, Glocestershire Worcestershire & Wiltshire by way of contribucion, and by ceaseing of all delinquents persons and estates, releasing them for money, besides the selling of all the Gentl[emen] and Comanders which was taken at Highnam by Sir William Waller, being 2 or 300 (he receuing for said Kts. as Sir Hen. Lingen, Sir Trever Williams, and others 500 ɫi. apeice, then 300 ɫi. and 200 ɫi. apeice which raised to vast summes of money) the releasing of which caused the garrisones in South Wales to the great prejudice of the well affected in those partes, besides the selling of Mr. Dutton the Knight of Gloucester shire, and others prisoners of note when they were taken, as Sir Richard Ducy, Barronett Tracy and  many others; one tax he ceased Gloucestershire was 17000ɫi. for 3 moneths, besides the said Massey had vast sumes of money from the House of Parliament, and the impost of currants from the Custome House which a Committee of Gloucester received for him, and other great summes hee often received as from the Lord of Essex, besides many prizes that was taken upon the River Severne.
That Sir R. H. hath a thousand pounds in his hands, of one Charles Price a delinquent, and will not deliver it, and hath bought one Mr. Howes his estate, a delinquent which hath been in armes.
The heads of a Charge to a sermon preached by Mr. Tho: Smith at Lancaster parish church, out of the 2d Epistle of Petter, the 2d chap: and the 2d verse.
From which he colected this observation, that every[one] that denies a fundementall doctrin of fayth and after con[futation] . . . . or admonition obstainatly maintaine it.
And now coming to lye downe Antechrist, and what it was like, and heresey to be a pernitious destration.
1. He compared heresey to a canker that did eate the eyes and flesh till at last did consume to the verey bone.
2. He compared it to an overflowing flood that drives away heapes of sand and stones, and indeed nothing is able to withstand it.
3ly. To foxes that devours the little plants or vines of Christ, for as foxes is subtile soe is heriticks.
4ly. To wolves being of a tearing and devouring nature, soe hereticks rent both Church and State.
5ly. To grinding Marchants that through covteousnesse make marchandiz of poore soules.
6ly. To spaunes of the Divill, or like a spaune of the Divill in a spirituall liknesse which walketh about the City catching soules.
7ly. To doges which are of a snarling nature.
8ly. To Divills or like to Jezabells, the daughters of the Divill being a spirituall bewitching soules.
9ly. To cheaters as in that once famous Citty, which one can scearsely goe into but they shall have their pocketts pick't, if not their throates cutt, meaneing the Citty of London, where the Parliament and Army resides, haveing their mindes darkened through heresy, denying the Lord that bought them.
I have bin shewing you what they are like, and now I will come to shew you who they are.
(1) Such as leave the truth, and are of this part Independant, and soe to Anabaptize, and then to Antenominisme, and then to meare nothing as they were before.
And that there was such a tolleracion now that every one might follow after his owne lusts, and his owne wayes. I thinke contrary to the lawes of mann, and I am sure contrary to the lawes of God, for if Paul had had might according to his good will, hee would have had them all cutt off that troubled Israell, or the Church of Christ, as Mr. Smith said.
(2) I count those damnable hereticks that would not have their children baptized, or such as would not have a Sabboth or a 7th part of tyme for God's Worship, or that pull downe free Grace and sett up free will, or that preach the law without the Gospell, or the Gospell without the law.
(3) I tearme such damnable hereticks as make seperacion from the ancient Church of England, under what pretence so ever of scandall, untryed without seekeing to bee reformed before the said seperacion, nor ought to leave one Church with lawfull Church ordinance, and to goe to another, both equally scandalous, nor  ought you to depart from that Church, though never soe confusedly disordered, till they bee humbled, and I question whether then or noe; for wee have had two great plagues, namely the sword and pestilence, but now that plague of these heresyes is come which is the worst of all, which destroyes both body and soule.
Soe if heresy bee thus tollerated, then judge whether or noe wee bee not all turning hereticks. But now I will come to lay downe some caution to prevent heresy.
(1) I desyre you not to take up your Religion quickly, nor to change with the tymes, but to learne your principles of catichisme, for now is the tyme comeing that heresy is soe great, that they may come to question you in your principles of Religion.
(2ly) Being a people of itching eares which loves to heare noviltyes, and to heare new doctryne, but not allowing old Scripture phrayse to prove it with; therefore I adjure you, as a Minister of Christ, to stand for your old principles, for if you now loose that opportunitty, you never are like to have it againe; for I am not ashamed to confess my selfe one of the scattered tribe of Levy, but I will never turne heretick while I live.
Likewise in his prayer before sermon hee prayed, that if the Kinge were alive that hee might bee restored to his former dignity and honour, and if dead, that his blood may not be layd to the charge of this Kingdome.
And further wee are informed by a very honest man, that the said Tho: Smyth said there would bee noe peace till the Scotts came into the Kingdome to supprese the Independans and Sectaryes armye, and alsoe further said, if they came into England hee would joyne with them, and that the Mallitia of Lancashire was the honestest army in the Kingdome, for they would stand for the Presbyterian Government.
And thus haveing credible informacion that the aforesaid Mr. Smyth have preached this doctryne in divers publique places, and likewise in many private discourses, though often admonished by  divers of his owne friends and constant hearers, which wee have bin informed of, Therefore wee humbly conceive him nott fitt or safe to preach to seduce the people, but to remayne in restraynt till hee have cleared himselfe of what is charged against him.
Elizabeth Poole who came from Abington call'd in.
Having bin by the pleasure of the Most High made sensible of the many grievances of this land, and of the great trust putt into your hands, I have had some cause indeed of jealousies least you might (through the manifold temptations which will easily besett you) betray your trusts. I know I speake to some amongst you that can judge what I say. I have heard [that] some of you [are busied] uppon that which is called, The Agreement of the People. 'Tis very evident to mee, that the Kingly power is falne into your hands, and you are intrusted with itt that you might bee as the head to the body. Now therefore if you shall take that uppe as an Agreement of the people, I must humbly present this to your thoughts. For itt seemes to mee to bee [intended by the Agreement] that you shall give the power out of your owne hands; whereas God hath intrusted itt with you, and will require itt of you how itt is improved. You are his stewards, and soe stewards of the guift[s] of God in and uppon this Nation. Wherfore I should humbly desire that itt might bee faithfully improved of you; and lett noe jealousies or feares that might suggest themselves to you, or apprehensions in respect of persons whatsoever they are, [prevail]  in you to lett goe your trusts. Further another snare on the other hand will meete you: that you beare sway above measure. Butt I am afraid of this alsoe, that you loose your Nobility for feare of what Parliament might say, or people might say, or other judges might say, or such as men have their eyes uppon you. I know itt hath bin the panges (?) of some of you that the Kinge betrayed his trust and the Parliament their's; wherfore this is the great thinge I must present unto you: Betray nott you your trust.a
I have yett a[nother] message to declare, which itt's very possible may bee very strangely look't uppon; butt in the law of the Lord I present myself to tender itt, and lett itt finde acceptance as itt is.
(Gives in a paper.)b
I must desire to aske one question: whether you were commanded by the spiritt of God to deliver itt unto us in this manner?
I believe I had a command from God for itt.
To deliver this paper in this forme?
To deliver in this paper or otherwise a message.
And soe you bringe itt, and present itt to us, as directed by his spiritt in you, and commanded to deliver itt to us?
Yea Sir, I doe.
After Debate shee was call'd in againe.
The Councill desires to heare [from] you a little further what you say [as] to these 2 thinges. 1. What doe you hold forth to us as the demonstration of the witnesse to us, that this that you have deliver'd to us is from God, and from God given in to you to bee deliver'd to us? The next thinge [is, as to] that particular which you speake of concerning the Kinge: whether you intend itt against his triall or bringing to judgement, or against his execution only?a
That hee is due to bee judged I beleive, and that you may binde his hands and hold him fast under.b
What would you hold forth to us as the demonstration or  witnesse that wee should take notice of, that this that you have deliver'd to us to bee read is from God, from him given in to you, and from you to bee deliver'd to us?
Sir, I know nott, butt that that is there will beare witnesse for itt self, if itt bee consider'd in the relation that Kinges are sett in for Governement, though I doe nott speake this to favour the tyranny or bloodthirstinesse of any, for I doe looke uppon the Conquest to bee of Divine pleasure, though I doe nott speake this—God is nott the supporter of tyranny or injustice, those are thinges hee desires may bee kept under.a
I desire to know whether that which is the will of God is nott concordant with naturall reason?—and are refined and purified from itt's heate of which wee know because wee know nothing of itt's fall, but—Whether itt bee the will of God that any thinge in point of Governement should bee inconsistent with the most essentiall being for which itt was ordain'd? Now if then any outward thinge, and [any] state and power and trust [may be forfeited if it is abused], if itt bee nott the will or the minde of God that any man impowred or intrusted for the publique good, for the Governement sake should bee tyrannous to the governed for the welbeing of which hee was sett in the chaire for, then whether for the highest breach of trust there cannott bee such an outward forfeiture of life ittself, as of the trust itt self?
If these thinges bee mistaken by mee and found out by you, soe God may be glorified I shall bee satisfied.
That which was desired to know of the Gentlewoman was, [whether she said] That this message was dictated to her by the spiritt, and by the spiritt presented to this Councill. Now if itt bee this way of demonstration or reason as Col. Rich speakes to [it] will admitt of dispute; butt if itt bee only from God, God doth nott send a messenger butt that there may bee an impression uppon their hearts [that are] to receive itt. Now that which was proposed to Mrs. Poole to know [was], what demonstration or token shee can give that itt is from God; for either itt must bee from extraordinary Revelation from God to you, and from you to us, or else there must bee somethinge of argument and reason to demonstrate itt to us. Now there is nothing of reason in itt, and if itt bee from God the Councill would bee glad to heare what outgoinges there are in that particular?
For the present I have noe more to say then what is said therin.
I doe desire that I may aske heere 2 questions 1. I thinke you have indeed answer'd to the first already, butt perhaps I doe nott understand you fully, whether itt bee intended [only] to preserve his life, [and] nott att all against his Triall?
The 2d whether you doe offer this paper or from the Revelation of God?
I saw noe vision, nor noe Angell, nor heard noe voice, butt my  spiritt being drawne out about those thinges, I was in itt. Soe farre as it is from God I thinke itt is a revelation.a
In case uppon the Kinges Triall that very filthy thinges, murther and all the great crimes that can bee imagined, [shall be proved against him, and] that hee should bee found guilty, then must hee nott die?
That Hee will direct you in wisedome, I have presented my thoughts.
By the favour of this Councill, I would move one question: whether that the spiritt doth give in to her bee, that this Kinge after judgement must [not] die, or that noe Kinge in the world after judgement may die; and if soe, why itt should bee the minde of God that upon judgement and question hee should nott die rather then any other kinge.b
Why surely thus, itt appeares to mee that the Kinge is the highest in subordinat[ion] to God, in respect with the relation over the people His trust he hath betrayed—that I have often bin speaking of, and the charge and care therof is falne uppon you. Butt I speake in relation to the people. A Head once sett off.c
I desire to bee satisfied in one question more. A Triall of the person that may bee is meete and is just, and hee is capable of being judged by men. Now the question is, whether or noe, [in case] hee being nott convinc't that those that were intrusted for the Judiciall power are the proper Judges, and soe when hee [should make] answers pro and con hee stands mute and will nott answer—the question is whether that will hinder the power of judgement?
I understand itt nott.
I have heard mention since I came of two men, Joseph and Moses. The one was a greater provider for the wellbeing of the people, and the other did as much in delivering the people when they were nott well [used]. I desire that as Moses you will nott bee soe full of punctillios as to looke uppon the old Constitution, wherin they have bin uppon us 34 yearesb and they could fall uppon noe other forme butt the beastly forme of E[gypt]. [The Jews did] and the  best they brought forth was a calfe. Now this I should offer to you: Take heede how you sticke unto that Constitution without [leaving] which you are nott able to forme a way by which every man may enjoy his owne.
Debate concerning the setting a period to this Parliament by the last of Aprill.a
That itt will bee a greater securitie in case the Army should bee forced to remove, when the ill-affected partie may come in againe.
Itt will give much satisfaction to the people, in regard of their expressing their desires nott to sett uppe themselves butt their resolves for a future Representative.
That itt will bee more honourable and convenient for them to putt a period to themselves.b
If the Parliament should vote a day for their dissolution without  the Agreement, all the indeavours will bee used for Parliaments to come in the old way; butt if men finde there is noe avoidance of this Parliament butt by this Agreement, there is nothing soe much likely to keepe men's hands off from opposing the Agreement. The people may think if they oppose this Agreement they oppose the ending of this Parliament.a
Then you are afraid they will doe [so]?b
If the generality of people could see the end of this Parliament, [they] would bee for the opposing of any thinge of this kinde; or would waite for the expiring of that to looke for a succession of new Parliaments in the old way and old forme of a Kinge agen. Nothing of more advantage to this Parliament then to end itt by the Agreement with safetie [to itself], without prejudice to future Parliaments.
Uppon the 3d Article, The last Article, That every man beleives his God of all Nations.d
Those that doe nott owne Jesus Christ as a 2d person from the Father, yett if you aske them acknowledging the man Jesus Christ as the person through whome God hath revealed himself, whether they have this faith in Jesus Christ?
Debate uppon the last wordes. Soe as they abuse nott this Libertie [to the civil injury of others or actual disturbance of the public peace on their parts.]
If any man doe offend in relation to the civill injury of others, hee is punishable by the lawes.
Debate concerning the 9th Article, The Magistrates appointing Ministers.a
Truth, and light and knowledge has still gone under the name of errours and heresies, and still they have putt these Esau's garments uppon Jacob's back. And in that regard (that for the most parte truth and light go under the name of errour and heresy) wee shall give occasion to our Adversaries to raile against us in every pulpitt; and [they will] make itt their worke nott to discover truth and preach sound doctrine, butt to raile against honest men.
You agree [to allow them to preach against beliefs], if you doe butt say they must instruct the people as well concerning what is truth as what is false. I would know what latitude you give them to raile [against persons] by this, or that?
A use for satisfaction of conscientious men in those wordes. By our denying [the magistrate] compulsive power or restrictive power to [suppress] errours and heresies, wee doe allow they should bee opposed with spirituall weapons.
Wee are now about an Agreement, and as if the power were in our owne hands, butt if wee labour for libertie [for ourselves], lett us give itt to others that are as deare to Christ as wee are. Lett them preach what they will, they cannott touch mee only they touch mee in my purse.
Question uppon the matter concerning Religion. Whether they doe by that goe about to sett uppe a State Religion?b
Men should bee call'd before they can teach publiquely.
Made a longe speech declaring his dissent to the Agreement; setting forth that whilest wee were in a way of putting downe of aucthority wee had the power of God going alonge with us: but as itt was with the Parliament in [imposing] the Covenant, that which they look't for to bee for agreement proved to bee a great disagreement amongst the Nation, soe [with us] this [Agreement would prove] to bee an Hellish thinge, and altogether tending to disagreement; and though hee likes the greatest parte of that Agreement, yett the last [Article] as in relation to religion, is that which will doe much hurt.
Answer to itt.a
That itt was nott to advance themselves [they offered this Agreement to the nation], butt [as] such a settlement as might bee equally good for all; and when wee did hold this forth without any inforcement uppon any, meerly tendring [it] to them as our utmost essay in this kinde, then itt hath surely itt's proper effect in itt's testimonie to the kingedome of our indeavours in that kinde; and that effect I cannott butt expect from itt, because itt is a duty wee are  led too for avoiding a just offence, and the preventing those evills amongst men that may ensue uppon that offence. Butt indeed if ever wee shall come to use forcible impulsions to binde men uppe in this Agreement; and shall soe sett itt uppe as the necessary thinge without which the kingedome cannott bee, or soe sett itt uppe as that from which wee would promise good thinges to the kingedomes, with a neglect or deniall, or diminution of God, or of his power, then I thinke wee shall incurre (when wee doe come to that end) the same blame as hath bin in the inforcement of the Covenant.
Butt truly, I shall nott trouble your Lordshippe to speake [of] the vast differences both in religious and civill respects that are betweene Covenants of that kinde that that was, and such as this is; I shall say this only in generall: that this businesse of this Agreement is more of the destructive nature to all covenants and to all authoritiesa then itt is of the confirming nature to any. Except itt bee in that last clause of the non-resistencie of the peoples future Representatives by force of Armes.b Itt is thec contrary to [that, rather] the throwing downe of all destructive power then the erecting of any. Nay, I am confident that itt is nott the hand of men that will take away the power of Monarchy in the earth, butt if ever itt bee destroyed, itt will bee by the breaking forth of the power of God amongst men to make such formes needlesse. Butt the nature of this [Agreement] is, that uppon that ground [that] till God doe soe breake itt there will bee some power exercised, either by a voluntarie dispensation of the power from the people, or by the sword—since in the meane time there will bee some [power], that all the effect of this Agreement is noe more butt as restrictions uppon that power. [We agree as to that power] that itt shall nott bee in the hands of a Kinge; itt shall nott bee in the hands of Kinges or Peeres, or in the hands  of Commons, butt [in the hands] of such as are chosen [by the people]; and nott in their hands [perpetually], but [only] for soe many monthes as they are chosen; and that there shall bee a new election of another [Representative once in two years]; and for elections, that they shall nott bee in Corporations, butt [in] more equall [divisions]. And for the power [given to the Magistrate], itt gives [him] noe power, butt what the supposition of a Magistracie or a Commonwealth doth imply in itt selfe. The businesse of this Agreement is rather a limiting his power. In time they shall nott sitt soe longe. In the matter they shall nott have power to doe in those thinges that wee reserve from them; and one thinge is a reservation of all other thinges that are in this Agreement which are foundations of libertie. And truly if any man will justly finde fault with this Agreement, as itt is passing from us—to deliver the Nation from oppression, and to settle such a Governement, as there must bee such a Governement—if any man will take any just exception, itt will bee a shewing that wee did nott take away enough of power.a The whole Agreement is the taking away of any [undue power], itt is nott a setting uppe of power where there is none, butt itt is a taking off of power, a paring off of those unnecessary advantages which power in this Kingdome formerly had, and is still apt to have, whereby itt may oppresse. Now if itt bee blamable in anythinge; itt is in that itt does nott take away more; and if there were somethinge else wherin power should bee abridg'd, if wee bee unanimous to take away thus farre wee may have patience one towards another till God satisfie us in that alsoe. Under that notion uppon which in my understanding this Agreement doth passe from this Councill, I doe nott understand that itt does come under that sence that Mr. Erbury hath given of itt; and to that purpose itt will bee best to consider the termes  uppon which wee putt itt forth, and there was a declaration to that purpose to bee drawne to publish to the Kingedome.
One word, that I might nott bee mistaken [as to] the destruction that I speake of. Itt is nott minded or thought in my heart to destroy any mans person, noe nott to destroy the person of the Kinge, soe his power bee downe. I doe nott looke uppon mens persons or destroying of that power of the Magistrate that is now. The Parliament are a power by whome men may act according to the appearance of God in them. I doe nott looke uppon itt [as a power to be destroyed], neither doe I speake any thinge of that kinde; butt [I speak of] the destroying of those oppressive principalls both in powers and persons, and in courts and lawes. Those [are] thinges that have bin complained of and petitioned [against] by the poore country to the Parliament. The Parliament would never heare them. Many thousand Petitioners have petitioned [first] the Parliament, then the Lord Generall, that they would please to rectifie them; cries against unjust lawes, against tythes, [against] many unrighteous thinges crept uppe amongst us heere, amonge Committees, Receivours of monies. God was with you to take away the oppressions of men, and nott the powers of men,—nott to take away Magistracie, butt to take away those oppressions that lay before you and in your view, to remove them in the power of God.
I conceive the settlement of the Nation is properly to remove those thinges that are [the causes the nation is] unsettled. The thinges that trouble the Nation are these. I doe nott finde they are any wayes unsetled about Governement, butt they are unsetled about those oppressions that lie uppon them. I conceive the removing of these is a setling of them;a butt I conceive this [Agreement] will bee a meanes to unsettle them, acting the Nation  that should bee settled by the worde of God. Now if God would soe worke and act by his people of this Army as to remove those thinges that unsettle them, they would agree, butt this would unsettle them to see all thinges putt into this frame. For my parte I doe thinke that a dozen or 24 may in a short time doe the kingdome as much good as 400 that sitt in the Parliament in 7 yeares may doe,a and therfore that which I would have is to [remove those thinges that] unsettle them.b
I thinke nott that burthens are the causes of unsettlement, or the beginninges of unsettlement, butt [that] the beginninges of unsettlement are the controversies about power, where the power was. Wee finde this, that all the fixing of power to persons hath clearlie tended to the increasing of jealousies amongst men, and soe to unsettlement. Because that men as men are corrupt and will bee soe. Therfore there is probably nothing more like to tend to a settlement then the clearing of power, which formerly hath bin soe much in dispute, and the taking away that controversie of those severall Competitors to the Legislative power of the Kingedome, Kinge, Lords, and Commons. If itt please God to dispose the hearts of the people to [the] Agreement, that in it theyc may take away [that controversy], and soe taking away power  from men to oppresse the people, and nott leaving power hereditarie in men is some meanes of settlement. Butt if wee thinke meerly that burthens to the Nation are beginners and are the continuers of unsettlement, or to thinke to take away burthens without somethinge of settlement of another nature that is of clearing of thinges that are in controversie—Wee cannott limitt God to this, or that, or other way; butt certainly if wee take the most probable way according to the light wee have, God gives those thinges [their success]. That if itt please God these thinges should take, and bee received in the Kingdome—Thinges that doe tend to these effects, to the clearing of the controversies that have bin about power and the like, are [things] tending to settlement, and this is a probable way to bringe itt to that. Whether God will bringe itt to passe that or the other way is a secrett in his will, and is further then what is revealed to him, lett him [to whom it has been revealed] speake itt.
Mr. Erbury speake[s] of taking off burthens. This Agreement doth tend to the power, either the power that is now in the Parliament or the Army, and this Agreement doth leade us to that power to take away that.
There is as just a power now [in this Army] by which you may act in appearance, as in other following Representatives. This [Army] is call'd now from a just power to remove oppressions. I doe nott speake of Armies and such thinges, butt there are oppressions hidden in and corrupt thinges that may bee removed [by] the power of God if itt appeare in them.a
That all that putt itt off to your hand does a great [dis]service.  Sure there is att this time a very great dissagreement in the world and in this Kingdome, and if there bee nott neede of an Agreement now, there never was since the sons of men were uppon earth. If all of thema bee like't except some particulars, and if they are nott like't the whole must bee left out, I thinke itt will bee hard. Itt hath bin already said itt must bee offer'd to the House before itt comes from them as their act. I am sure there needes somethinge to goe out from you. You promised itt in your Remonstrance. Wee are now gott into the midst of January. Whether every man does nott see that thousands and tenn thousands of men are sencelesse? You have lost two monthes. Itt is nott only necessary that you passe this from you in regard of time, butt that the Agreement—I shall desire itt may bee putt to the Question whether itt shall goe out or noe.
I desire a worde or two for satisfaction, having bin att a distance for 3 monthes, because itt is desired itt may bee putt to the Question. I begge [to be heard] concerning two thinges which are very much debated in the Agreement: concerning the Magistrates power over men conscientiously fearing God, whether or noe they ought to have any thinge to doe in that thinge: and the other, whether the Magistrate shall have power to punish any man contrary to a law, or without a law.
I have somethinge to speake further: concerning the contending about the power which was the cause of the controversie. I beleive itt is so still, and I am sure itt is the [cause of the] jealousie that is begotten in God's people. God's people they are that have jealousie now att this time over the other. Some say the power is in your Excellencie and the Councill; and some in the Councill when they are there goe to putt itt off to others, namely the men att Westminster, or the Parliament soe called; which for my parte I can  hardlic soe call itt. Therfore I must intreate your Excellencie, whome the Lord hath clearlie called unto the greatest worke of righteousnesse that ever was amongst men, that your Excellencie and the Councill goe nott to shifte off that [work] which the Lord hath called you to. For my parte I doe verily believe, that if there were nott a spiritt of feare uppon your Excellency and the Councill, that hee would make you instruments to the people, of the thinges that hee hath sett before you. Itt is that confidence I have, and itt is uppon sufficient ground; because God hath said hee will doe those thinges by his people, when they beleive in him. They by beleif [shall] remove Mountaines, [and do] such thinges as were never yett done by men on earth; and certainly if I mistake nott, the spiritt is now to break forth, soe if itt were nott feare in us, wee should nott bee disputing amonge ourselves. Some are, studying to please men, I shall instance that partie of men called Presbyterians.a I dare nott lay itt as a charge, wee doe nott soe much study to feare the Lord our God who is able to satisfie them, and God hath soe farre satisfied some better than wee can. Wee hold forth the lives of Christians as being fill'd with the spiritt of Jesus Christ—Soe I say that all that wee now seeme to bee jealous over each other is about power, and truly itt is for want of the power of God that wee are jealous over one another.
For the other [thing as to which] I have nott received satisfaction (as Mr. Sprigge said once att this Questiona) iff wee should nott out of goodwill tell the Magistrate plainly that hee had noe power in the thinges of God either compulsive or restrictive. I beleive that God will yett visitt you once more, though I beleive that shall nott keepe itt away, butt lett us bee children unto God, shewing our love unto the Father. I begge that in the name of him I doe nott begge this in my owne name, and in my owne strength. Nott butt that I can trust the Lord. I beleive hee is about to turne some of our swordes into ploughsheares, and to [bid us] sitt still and behold his workes amongst men, and this is the day wherin hee is answering unto that great worke, and that wee should nott soe much indeavour to give away a power that God hath called us unto, or to contend about itt, butt to putt that into your hearts which is in our hearts.
I thinke that it would bee in order to the Gentleman's satisfaction that spoke last, that this [letter] that is in Question before your Excellency bee read; because there are many that have nott read itt since some alterations bee made in itt.
That I doe beleive there are few heere can say that it is in every particular to the satisfaction of their heart, that itt is as they would have itt; butt yett that there are few heere butt can say there is much in one or other kinde [is so]. I thinke that Gentleman that spoke last speakes the minde of others, butt wee finde Jesus Christ himself spoke as men were able to beare. Itt is nott a giving power to men, only while wee are pleading [for] a libertie of conscience there is a libertie [to be] given to other men. This is all the libertie that is given. That if the best Magistrate were that ever were from the worde of God gives the ground of, or the most able men that wee can expect, itt is butt such a libertie given that such a Magistrate can give libertie to one to dispense the  thinges of God. Itt is feared, that wee may nott have such Magistrates because wee have nott had them, nor have them now,a nor the men to preach. Now if the Magistrates bee nott such as wee have dispensing the thinges of edification[?] which should bee true. Though I looke uppon itt to bee the truth of God and itt is nott to mee to bee [proved] that the Magistrate should nott have power in these cases, butt since itt is my liberty, itt is my libertie to parte with that which is my right for a weake Brother, and I can beare ittb as my owne.
For the Agreement in the whole. I thinke itt hath bin acting uppon the hearts of many of us, that itt is nott an Agreement amongst men that must overcome the hearts of men; itt shall nott bee by might, nor by strength, butt by his spiritt. Now this Agreement doth seeme to mee to bee a fruite of that spiritt.c That since God hath cast very much uppon your Excellency and those that waited uppon you in the Army, that wee would hold forth those thinges (a setling of that or any thinge which might bee of concerne to others) that wee would nott make use of any opportunity of this kinde—That wee would nott serve them as they have bin served, or as they would serve us, butt that there might bee some conviction that God is in us—For itt is nott a principle of man, when wee have brought downe such men that would have kept us under, to give them a libertie, butt itt is more of God, to putt them into such a condition especially as to thinges of civill concernement  that wee neede nott seeke ourselves, that wee will trust God and give them uppe in a common current againe. That hath bin an Argument [of] very much [weight] with many why thinges of this kinde might bee proposed. Though this hath stucke, that the Worde of God doth take notice, that the powers of this world shall bee given into the hands of the Lord and his Saints, that this is the day, Gods owne day, wherin hee is coming forth in glory in the world, and hee doth putt forth himself very much by his people, and hee sayes in that day wherin hee will thresh the Mountaines hee will make use of Jacob as that threshing instrument. Now by this wee seeme to putt power into the hands of the men of the world when God doth wrest itt out of their hands; butt that having bin my owne objection as well as [the objection of] others, itt had this answer in my heart.
1. That when that time shall bee the spiritt of God will bee working to itt, and hee will worke on us soe farre that wee are [to be] made able in wisedome and power to carry through thinges in a way extraordinarie,a that the workesb of men shall bee answerable to his workes; and finding that there is nott such a spiritt in men, "Itt is only to gett power into our owne hands," "that wee may raigne over them," "itt is to satisfie our lusts," "to answer the lusts within" us,c butt rather that itt was in our hearts to hold forth something that may bee suitable to [the minds of] men. That present reproach uppon us doth call uppon us to hold forth somethinge to the Kingdome, and this was all of Argument that did come downe to itt, soe that that objection was answer'd. First to answer that objection, and secondly to take away that reproach. Some that feare God and are against us uppon other grounds. They thinke, that our businesse is to establish ourselves. Now hoping there will appeare much of God in this. That by this wee  doe very much hold forth a libertie to all the people of God, though yett itt may soe fall out that itt may goe hardly with the people of God. I judge itt will doe soe, and that this Agreement will fall short. I thinke that God doth purposely designe itt shall fall short of that end wee looke for, because hee would have us know our peace. Our Agreement shall bee from God, and nott from men; and yett I thinke the hand of God doth call for us to hold forth [something] to this Nation, and to all the world to vindicate that profession that wee have all alonge made to God, [and] that wee should lett them know that wee seeke nott for ourselves butt for men.a
This account of the votes of the General Council of Dec. 14 is from vol. xvi. 4to of the Clarke MSS. The debate which follows is from vol. 67, folio.
For list of names see the table of attendances, given at the end of the volume. Cromwell was absent. Mercurius Pragmaticus notes under Dec. 14: "This day Duke Oliver set forth in state towards Windsor, upon an entreaty by letter from Duke Hamilton to come and conferre notes with him, now that design is ripe for execution. It's thought that cunning coward (for as yet we must not call him traytor) hath told tales. . . . ." The same paper adds: "Munday, Decem. 18, came information, that much discourse had passed between Hamilton and Cromwell at Windsor, but in conclusion he protested he was not invited in by his Majesty, nor by any member of Parliament." Mercurius Pragmaticus, Dec. 12-19, 1648.
This debate concerns article seven of the original "Agreement" laid before the Council of the Army. It runs thus: "That the power of the people's Representatives extend (without the consent or concurrence of any other person or persons) to the enacting, altering, repealing, and declaring of Laws; to the erecting and abolishing Officers and [?] Courts of Justice and to whatever is not in this Agreement excepted or reserved from them." Eight reservations or exceptions then follow. The first is the one now before the Council. "We do not now empower our Representatives to continue in force, or make any Lawes, Oaths, and Covenants, whereby to compell, by penalties or otherwise, any person to any thing, in or about matters of Faith, Religion, or God's Worship, or to restrain any person from the professing his Faith, or exercise of Religion, according to his conscience, in any house or place (except such as are or shall be set apart for the publique worship,) nevertheless the instruction or directing of the nation in a publique way, for the matters of Faith, Worship, or Discipline (so it be not compulsive or expresse Popery) is referred to their discretion." Lilburne's Foundations of Freedom, 4to, 1648; cf. Rushworth, vii., 1358. In the completed Agreement, presented to Parliament on Jan. 20, 1649, there was no reservation concerning religion, but a separate article, the ninth, was devoted to the question of toleration and to religious matters in general. Old Parliamentary History, xviii., 533.
"On Saturday the two politic pulpit-drivers of Independency, by name Nye and Goodwin, were at the debate of settling the Kingdom, in the mechanic councell at Whitehall, and one main question was concerning the extent of magistracy, which Nye and Goodwin requested them not to determine before advice had with some learned divines; which saying of theirs turned the debate into a quarrell: for the mechanicks took snuff, told them they thought themselves as divine as any divines in the kingdom, which a brother standing by undertook to prove, and pretended a sudden revelation for the purpose, by which means both Nye and Goodwin were once again made silenced ministers." Mercurius Pragmaticus, Dec. 12-19, 1648.
In the "Humble petition of thousands of well affected people inhabiting the City of London," etc., presented on Sept. 11, 1648, this view is clearly set forth. The petitioners address the House of Commons as "the supreme authority of England," and will them so to consider themselves. They are told that they must not admit King or Lords to any share in this supreme authority, "it being impossible for us to believe that it can consist either with the safety or freedom of the nation to be governed by two or three supremes." The petition complains that the Commons have declared that they will not alter the ancient government from King, Lords, and Commons; "not once mentioning, in case of difference, which of them is supreme, but leaving that point, which was the chiefest cause of all our public differences, disturbances, wars, and miseries, as uncertain as ever." Old Parliamentary History, xvii., 454.
MS. "exercise," the last line supplies the correction.
"Hee," i.e., the magistrate.
Order of the two sentences altered.
Ireton, so far as these reports can be trusted, had not yet spoken. I doubt whether the order of the speeches given in the MS. is always correct.
See p. 72.
The position of several clauses altered.
i.e., a difference not as to the nature of the supreme power but whether the King alone possessed it.
The last three sentences lines are transferred from p. 80.
Cf. Vernon, "The Sword's Abuse Asserted, or a word to the Army; shewing the weakness of carnal weapons in spiritual warfare, the sword an useless tool in temple work; and the bearer thereof an unfit builder. Tendered to the serious consideration of his Excellency the Lord Fairfax and his General Councel, upon occasion of their late debates about the clause concerning religion in the promised Agreement. By John Vernon, sometimes a member of the Army. Imprinted for John Harris, Decemb. 1648."
MS. "needinesse & acquiringe."
"them," i.e. the Magistrates, changing abruptly from the singular to the plural.
incomes, i.e. incomings, impressions. Cromwell speaks of "men who know not what it is to pray or believe, and to receive returns from God."
If any one of these three or four questions propounded were put to the vote we might know the minds of this meeting.
This question of the power of the magistrate with respect to religion.
Peter doubtless refers to Udall's tract: The state of the Church of England laid open in a conference between Diotrephes a Bysshopp, Tertullus a papiste, Demetrius an usurer, Pandochus an Innkeeper, and Paule a preacher of the worde of God, published in 1588.
Cf. Cromwell, 4th speech, in which he terms England "the best people in the world. . . . A people that have the highest and clearest profession amongst them of the greatest glory, namely religion."
Peter means to say that he does not agree with Waller's suggestion.
Peter does not ageee with Sprigge's view.
i.e. temporal gains.
Canticles, viii., 9.
Peter's meaning is clear though the report is hopelessly involved. He recommends that the reserve be adjourned for a month or two, and the outside public invited to give their opinions on it, whilst the council of war continues its discussions on the other parts of the Agreement.
Spencer refers apparently to a passage in the letter prefixed to the Agreement. The Agreement is said to be presented by the Army, "as a testimony whereby all men may be assured what we are willing and ready to acquiesce in."
Hee, i.e. the magistrate.
Possibly Wildman or Overton, certainly some layman not a member of the Army. "The gentleman" whose argument is refuted is Ireton.
i.e. Have the question stated.
i.e. Do not adjourn the consideration of the religious question till we have settled the civil questions, as some propose, but appoint a committee at once to consider the religious question. This proposal was adopted.
Compare the eighth section of the Agreement of the People (as presented Jan. 20, 1649). "That the representatives have and shall be understood to have the supreme trust . . . and the highest and final judgment concerning all natural or civil things; but not concerning things spiritual or evangelical."
Refers to Deane.
"We expected," say the Petitioners to the Parliament, "That you would have exempted matters of religion and God's worship from the compulsive or restrictive power of any authority upon earth, and reserved to the supreme authority an uncompulsive power only of appointing a way for the public, whereby abundance of misery, persecution, and heart-burning would for ever be avoided. . . . That you would not have followed the example of former tyrannous and superstitious parliaments, in making orders, ordinances, or laws, or in appointing punishments concerning opinions or things supernatural, styling some blasphemies, others heresies; whereas you know yourselves easily mistaken, and that divine truths need no human helps to support them: such proceedings having been generally invented to divide the people amongst themselves and to affright men from that liberty of discourse by which corruption and tyranny would be soon discovered." Old Parliamentary History, xvii., 456, 458.
May be paraphrased: "Had almost made religion itself to fall to the ground, under pretence of restraining errors and blasphemies."
i.e. I wish you would not suggest that the Army has broken its engagements.
The grand army remonstrance of Nov. 20, 1648, to which Ireton refers, supplies the words given here in brackets (Old Parliamentary History, xviii., 236). In the text of the speech in Clarke MS. after the word "hitherto" in l. 16. come the following words, which are clearly misplaced, "and for relation to lawes in that kinde and for providing better for the well government of the nation, and wee move this as to advice to matters of justice and of the kingdom."
"An Agreement of the people of England, and the places therewith incorporated for a firm and present peace upon grounds of common right and freedom."
"These things we declare to be essential to our just freedomes, and to a thorough composure of our long and wofull distractions. And therefore we are agreed and resolved to maintain these certain rules of government and all that joyne therein, with our utmost possibilities against all opposition whatsoever." Foundations of Freedom, p. 12.
MS. "that of religion."
i.e. made this a case of conscience, said he was following his conscience in thus acting.
Specimen of the argument used by the gentleman.
Walford was one of Fairfax's chaplains.
Of Scroope's regiment of horse.
Apparently refers to the King's trial.
Referring to Harrison's proposal for a Committee.
See Preface. The history of the drawing up of the original "Agreement" is given at length by Lilburne.
Order of clauses altered.
The order of the clauses given in the MS. has been altered.
Ireton's point is that the question raised by Parker may be considered later after the main question, whether the magistrate has any power at all, has been settled.
Order of clauses altered.
Isaiah, x., 27.
From this point the speech becomes simply a collection of fragmentary sentences.
MS. adds "or ought to be."
The last clause has been transferred from a later sentence. Nye proposes to amend Ireton's definition by adding these words.
Probably a reference to Clarke's note-taking.
Order of sentences changed.
"This is life eternal that they might know thee the only true God." John xvii., 3.
MS. "samenesse of power."
See the argument of Roger Williams in The Bloudy Tenent of Persecutions, ed. 1848, p. 272 et seqq.
I should be inclined to suggest "virtue" in place of visage, were it not that Goodwin might perhaps have been intending a play upon words.
The MS. continues "for matter of freenesse."
Cf. The Bloudy Tenent, pp. 214, 305, 341.
Nye's argument is clearly "If a Commonwealth may provide for feeding the bodies of its members may it not provide also for feeding their souls, etc."
The position of the last sentence has been changed.
"them," i.e. laws, or possibly magistrates.
The beginning of this speech is hopelessly confused. Wildman attempts to answer both Nye, "the gentleman that spoke last," and Goodwin, "the gentleman that spoke before."
i. e. "equally fallible and more likely to err." Some word such as "constituted" is required by the sense, in place of "restrained."
Position of phrases altered.
MS. I conceive the punishment of the Ceremoniall law was not of the Morall law itt self the punishment of the Morall law was not of the Morall law itt self, but of the purity of the Jewes.
Position of clause altered.
Position of clauses altered.
Position of clause and order of words altered.
In this speech, which is exceptionally confused in the MS., the position of several clauses has been altered.
MS. "The Gospell the parts of itt."
"Hee," i.e. the magistrate.
"They," i.e. the Epistles.
i.e. leaving the magistrates to decide what was to be restrained or permitted.
i.e. The magistrate was himself an idolater.
MS. "not morall, but not naturally morall." Wildman's next sentence shows that the first "not" is superfluous. Some repetitions have been omitted, and some corrections from a second version of the speech inserted.
On Nov. 10 the House of Commons had voted that Holland and Owen and five other chief promoters of the second civil war should be simply banished. Lords, Journals, x., 590, 596; Great Civil War, iv., 246. But this vote had been rescinded by the Commons on Dec. 13, 1648. Commons' Journals, vi., 96. Mr. Gardiner points out that Cromwell was of opinion that these leaders should be tried before the King's trial instead of afterwards. Great Civil War, iv., 282.
Probably signed in the name of Fairfax.
In the Agreement as originally laid before the Council this reservation ran thus: "We do not empower them to impresse or constraine any person to serve in warre, either by sea or land, every man's conscience being to be satisfied in the justnesse of that cause wherein he hazards his life." Lilburne, Foundations of Freedom, p. 11; Rushworth, vii., 1360. Compare vol. i., p. 409. In the Agreement as presented to Parliament on Jan. 20 this reserve agrees with the resolution as passed on Dec. 16, with the following clause added: "or for assisting in execution of the laws; and may take order for the employing and conducting of them for those ends; provided etc."
The third Reserve was passed as it stood in Lilburne's draft agreement, except that the first sentence ran originally: "That after the dissolution of this present Parliament," etc. See also vol. i., p. 409. The fourth Reserve, now voted to be laid aside, ran thus: "That in any lawes hereafter to be made, no person by vertue of any tenure, grant, charter, patent, degree or birth, shall be privileged from subjection thereto, or being bound thereby as well as others." The bearing of this clause on the position of the House of Lords may be seen by comparing it with the arrangement proposed in 1647. Clarke Papers, vol. i., pp. 391, 408. The fifth Reservation was of the same kind: "That all priviledges or exemptions of any persons from the lawes, or from the ordinary course of legal proceedings, by vertue of any tenure, grant, charter, patent, degree or birth, or of any place of residence or refuge, shall be henceforth void and null, and the like not to be made or reserved again. Lilburne, Foundations of Freedom, p. 11.
On Richard Haddock see the Haddock correspondence, printed in vol. viii. of the Camden Miscellany by Mr. Maunde Thompson.
Under Friday, Dec. 22, the Perfect Diurnal says: "The General Council of the Army have had many large debates this week upon that reserve in the Representative, in matters of religion; some Presbyterian ministers have been discoursed withal, and at last an expedient is agreed upon, which will give satisfaction; much debate also upon the power of the Representative in Civils, as how they might proceed to punish, not being directed by a known law."
This is practically the eighth clause of the Agreement as presented to Parliament on Jan. 20, 1649, except that the eighth clause, after "natural and civil things," continues "but not concerning things spiritual and evangelicall;" and then enumerates the six reservations, prefacing them thus: "Provided that, even in things natural and civil, these six particulars next following are, and shall be, understood to be excepted and reserved from our Representatives." Old Parliamentary History, xviii., 532. In the completed Agreement a separate article, viz. the ninth, was devoted to the question of religion, instead of a simple section amongst the reservations. For the schedul propounded in 1647, see vol. I., p. 407.
Anthony Mildmay. See Appendix.
In October, 1642, Col. John Venn occupied Windsor Castle for the Parliament. In April, 1645, the House of Commons recommended Col. Christopher Whichcote (to use his own spelling of his name) as Venn's successor. Whichcote, who had commanded a brigade under Essex in Cornwall, and had signed the capitulation of Sept. 1, 1644, seems to have been removed from his governorship in 1651. He died about 1655. Commons' Journals, iv., 100, 121; Rushworth, v., 706. Merourius Politicus, July 24-31, 1651. Some documents relative to the sojourn of Charles I. at Windsor are printed by Tighe and Davis, Annals of Windsor, ii., 228.
These instructions were all passed unanimously, as Clarke MS., xvi., 61, shows, with the exception of the fifth, which was opposed by Cromwell, and by Cromwell alone. The reason may have been that he thought this particular instruction unnecessarily harsh. Or, on the other hand, he may have considered that it would be an obstacle to the treaty with the King, which, in the hope of saving the life of Charles, Cromwell still continued to advocate. Great Civil War, iv., 283-285.
I conclude from this vote and letter that Fairfax, disapproving of the proposal to try the King, had absented himself from the meetings of the Council, in order not to be implicated in the preparations for the King's trial; but was held nevertheless to be bound by the decisions of the majority of the Council in political matters. From the time when the Council of the Army was first set up, May 1647, the attachment of his signature to the declarations and political manifestos of the army was a mere matter of form. In his "Short Memorial" he says: "From the time that they declared their usurped authority at Triplow Heath, I never gave my free consent to anything they did: but being yet undischarged of my place they set my name in a way of course to all their papers, whether I consented or not." It is certain that Fairfax in writing this, much over-states and ante-dates his opposition to the proceedings of the Army. During 1647 he seems to have been in perfect agreement with the other leaders of the Army. Their differences began in 1648. At some period in the beginning of 1648, probably about April, if the statement of Fairfax himself may be trusted, he prevented a forcible purgation of the Parliament which Cromwell and some others advocated (Short Memorial, ed. Maseres, p. 446; cf. Life of Col. Hutchinson, ii., 149, ed. 1885; Rushworth, vii., 1070). In November, 1648, his objections to the acceptance of Ireton's draft Remonstrance led to a last negotiation between the Army leaders and the King (Gardiner, Great Civil War, iv., 237). Now, in December, 1648, after giving his support to the Remonstrance, playing the most prominent part in the occupation of London and the interruption of the Newport treaty, he accepted the responsibility of Pride's Purge, but parted company with the Council of Officers on the question of the King's trial.
This is the sixth Reserve in the original Agreement, and the fifth in the Agreement as presented on January 20, 1649. The difference is that the sixth Reserve originally began, "That the Representatives intermeddle not with the execution of any law, nor give judgment," &c. Both versions conclude "punishing publique officers for abusing or failing in their trust," so that these three words are probably accidentally omitted in the report of the proceedings of December 26, printed above. For the formulas adopted in November, 1647, see vol. i., pp. 407, 408.
A large number of petitions both from the army and different counties were presented to Fairfax in December and January, 1648-9. See Rushworth, vii., 1374, 1388, and the Moderate for those months, pp. 200, 210, 211, 214, 223, 224, 231, 233, 239, 251, 263, 285.
A full account of this woman's discourse to the Council is contained in the pamphlet entitled: "A Vision wherein is manifested the disease and cure of the Kingdome, being the summe of what was delivered to the Generall Councell of the Army, Decemb. 29, 1648. Together with a true copy of what was delivered in writing (the fifth of the present January) to the said Generall Councell, of divine pleasure concerning the King in reference to his being brought to triall, what they are therein to do, and what not, both concerning his office and person. By E. Poole, herein a servant to the most High God. London 1648. 4to." In a pamphlet published in 1651 called "A brief narrative of the Mysteries of State carried on by the Spanish faction," etc., she is represented as a "monstrous witch" provided by Cromwell in order to mould the Council to his designs.
"The great work which lieth upon you is to become dead to every pleasant picture which might present itself for your delight, that you perfectly dying in the will of the Lord, you may find your resurrection in him." A Vision, etc.
This account of her vision stands first in Mrs. Poole's pamphlet and was probably delivered before the fragmentary speech on p. 150, but I have preserved the order given in the MS.
The words in this speech inserted in brackets are derived from the pamphlet.
The position of this clause has been altered.
"The Lord hath a controversie with the great and mighty men of the earth, with the Captains and Rulers, and Governors. You may be great and mighty upon the earth, but against the mighty men of the earth is his controversy held: For as you are the potsherd of the earth, he will surely breake you to peeces till there be not a shred left to carry coals on." A Vision, etc.
"She being after demanded, Whether she had any direction to give the Councel? She answerd, No: for the present, for she was in this case presented to herself as the Church which spirit is in you, and shall guide you." A Vision, etc.
Cf. vol. i., p. 381.
A petition from Lieut.-Col. Lilburne was read after Mr. Poole's business was finished, and the Council then proceeded to discuss the Agreement.
The seventh Reserve in the original draft of the Agreement was: "That no member of any future Representative be made either Receiver, Treasurer, or other officer during that imployment, saving to be a Member of the Councell of State." In the Agreement as presented on January 20 this was the seventh Article. The eight Reserve in the original draft of the Agreement was: "That no Representative shall in anywise render up, or give, or take away any of the foundations of common right, liberty or safety contained in this Agreement, nor shall levell men's estates, destroy propriety or make all things common." This became in the Agreement as presented on January 20 the sixth reservation of the eighth Article. The following words were also added in the completed Agreement: "And that, in all matters of such public concernment, there shall be a liberty to particular members of said Representative to enter their dissents from the major vote."
The eighth Article of the original Agreement before it was altered, as mentioned above, concluded: "Soe as the sessions thereof continue not above 40 daies, and soe it dissolve two moneths before the appointed time for the meeting of the next Representative." In the Agreement as presented on January 20 the Article, passed as above, is the sixth in order.
The ninth Article of the original Agreement passed as above, became in the completed Agreement the third reservation of the eighth Article. The chief alteration made by the Council from Lilburne's original draft is the insertion of the sentences printed in italics.
The tenth Article now passed by the Council is also the tenth in the Agreement as presented on January 20. In the original draft of the Agreement it ran: "That every officer or leader of any forces in any present or future Army, or garrison that shall resist the orders of the next or any future Representative (except such Representative shall expressly violate this Agreement) shall forthwith after his or their resistance, by vertue of this Agreement, loose the benefit and protection of all the laws of the land, and die without mercy." Lilburne's Foundations of Freedom, p. 12.
Cf. vol. i., pp. 364, 365.
The paper is given in the MS. at the close of 1648, but from its contents is not improbably of earlier date.
See p. 187.
She being afterwards asked by some of the chief officers; Whether she conceived they were called to deliver up the trust to them committed either to Parliament or people? She answered, No, for this reason it being committed to their care and trust it should certainly be required to their hands, but take them with you as younger brethren who may be helpfull to you. A Vision, p. 2.
Against the King's execution.
"Our Counsels run all for the following of Providence by present dispatch, and will not endure any mediations; no, nor hear again of Ireton's proposals, that it were perhaps safer to have the King live prisoner for to dispose him a while to abandon his negative, to part from Church lands, to abjure the Scots, etc." Royalist letter Jan. 8, 1649, Carte, Original Letters, i., 202.
Ireton appears to have tried to make use of Mrs. Poole's vision to support the policy he had been urging.
"She was asked, whether she spake against the bringing of him to triall, or against their taking of his life. She answered, Bring him to his triall, that he may be convicted in his conscience, but touch not his person." A Vision, p. 6.
She argues in her message to the Council that they are not to take the King's life. "Vengeance is mine I will repay saith the Lord . . . Stretch not forth the hand against him. For know this, the conquest was not without divine pleasure, whereby kings came to reign, though through lust they tyrannized; which God excuseth not but judgeth; and his judgments are fallen heavy, as you see upon Charles your Lord." P. 5.
This last sentence is attributed by the MS. to Sadler, but is clearly part of Mrs. Poole's answer to his question.
MS. "another kinde."
The sense of her argument, according to the pamphlet, was that the King is to the people as the husband to the wife. The husband is head of the wife (Ephesians, v. 23), and therefore apparently may be put under restraint but not cut off. She quotes the case of Nabal.
This speech, though given in the MS. at the end of the debate on Mrs. Poole's message, has absolutely no connection with it at all. These debates, as I conclude from a number of signs and other indications in the MSS., were taken down in shorthand on loose sheets of paper at the time, then put up in bundles, and not transcribed or copied into the folio book at present containing them until many years later, probably not till 1662. Under the circumstances it would not be surprising if a speech were sometimes inserted in the wrong place. This speech may very well belong to the debate of Jan. 6, or to that of 13 Jan. Cowell apparently urges the Council not to seek to give up their power to Parliament, as they proposed to do by the Agreement, but to keep the government in their own hands Like the Israelites, he argues, the English people have come out of the house of bondage. Just as the Israelites hankered after the gods of Egypt and set up a golden calf, so the army are making a mistake in too punctiliously adhering to the old Constitution, and striving to set up government by parliaments again.
He perhaps said, "wherein these burdens have been upon us 300 or 400 years."
The first article of the original Agreement was:
"That to prevent the many inconveniences apparently among from the long continuance of the same persons in authority, this present Parliament be dissolved upon, or before, the last day of April in the year of our Lord 1649." Lilburne, Foundations of Freedom, p. 4. In the agreement as presented on Jan. 20, 1649, this article was adopted with merely a couple of verbal alterations; viz. "supreme authority," "end and dissolve." In the third article the first Thursday in May, 1649, was fixed as the date for the election of the new Parliament. In Oct. 1647, the army demanded a dissolution by Sept. 1, 1648. See vol. i., p. 364.
"Them," i.e. the Parliament. Cromwell says on 12 Sept. 1654: "I pressed the Parliament, as a member, to period themselves;—once and again, and again, and ten nay twenty times over" (Carlyle, Speech III.). "So willing were we, even very tender and desirous if possible, that these men might quit their places with honour." (Speech I.).
This last sentence is added below as a separate speech of Ireton's, but seems clearly to be part of this.
i.e. Oppose the Agreement.
A life of William Erbury is given by Wood, Athenae Oxonienses, ii., 75, ed. 1721. Wood says he was a chaplain in Essex's army, "and therein he sometimes exercised himself in military concerns, but mostly in those relating to his function, whereby he corrupted the soldiers with strange opinions, Antinomian Doctrines, and other dangerous errors, and by degrees fell to grosser opinions, holding universal redemption, etc., and afterwards became a Seeker, and I know not what."
The debate is evidently on the 3rd clause of the ninth article (concerning religion), which runs thus in the Agreement presented on Jan. 20: "That such as profess faith in God by Jesus Christ, however differing in judgment from the doctrine, worship or discipline publickly held forth, as aforesaid, shall not be restrained from, but shall be protected in the profession of their faith and exercise of religion, according to their consciences in any place except such as shall be set apart for the public worship; where we provide not for them, unless they have leave: so as they abuse not this liberty to the civil injury of others or to actual disturbance of the public peace on their parts. Nevertheless it is not intended to be hereby provided, that this liberty shall necessarily extend to popery or prelacy."
"Monday, Decem. 25. Notice was given of what passed in the Councell of Mechanicke at Whitehall on Saturday, where they voted a toleration of all religions whatsoever, not excepting Turkes nor Papists nor Jewes." Pragmaticus, Dec. 19-26. On the toleration of the Jews see Carte, Original Letters, ii., 233. On Jan. 5, 1649, a petition was presented to Fairfax and the General Council from Johanna Cartwright and her son Ebenezer Cartwright, inhabitants of Amsterdam, for repealing the act of banishment against the Jews, "and that they may be again received and permitted to trade and dwell amongst you in this land, as now they do in the Netherlands." This was printed in 1649 under the title of The Petition of the Jews. 4to.
About the same time a negotiation was set on foot between the Catholics and Independents. The Catholics were to support the new government on the promise of a free exercise of their religion in England. See Carte, Original Letters, i., 206, 216, 219-222; Clarendon State Papers, ii., 544.
The Perfect Diurnal, under Jan. 8, says: "The Generall Councell of the Army intended to perfect the Agreement this day, if the sitting of the Commissioners for the trial of the King in the Painted Chamber had not prevented them."
On Jan. 10 and Jan. 11 the discussion is evidently on Article 9, Clause 1, of the Agreement of Jan. 20: "It is intended that the Christian religion be held forth and recommended, as the public profession in this nation, which we desire may by the grace of God be reformed to the greatest purity in doctrine, worship and discipline according to the word of God; the instructing of the people thereunto in a public way, so it be not compulsive; as also the maintaining of able teachers for that end, and for the confutation or discovery of heresy, error, and whatsoever is contrary to sound doctrine is allowed to be provided for by our Representatives; the maintenance of which teachers may be out of a public treasury and we desire not by tithes. Provided, that popery or prelacy be not held forth as the public way or profession in this nation."
The second clause ran: "That to the public profession so held forth, none be compelled by penalties or otherwise; but only may be endeavoured to be won by sound doctrine, and the example of a good conversation." The third clause is quoted on p. 171, note.
William Butler of Northamptonshire, afterwards one of Cromwell's major-generals, and throughout his life a great advocate of liberty of conscience. In 1652 he presented to the Committee for the Propagation of the Gospel a paper on behalf of toleration, containing four questions, the second of which illustrates the argument of this speech. "Whether it be not the will or counsel of God that there must be heresies, yea damnable heresies, that such who are approved may be made perfect, and whether it be not the pleasure of God that the judgment and condemnation of such false teachers and heretics be left to Himself?" Masson's Life of Milton, iv., 393.
The Perfect Diurnall gives the following account of this day's proceedings: "Thursday last the Generall Councell of Officers sate at Whitehall. The Agreement of the People as it was fully concluded of was read: and it was referred to some officers to nominate some other trustees for the making the divisions in the severall counties for elections, besides the Lord Grey, Sir John Danvers, etc. Also that two petitions should be drawn up in the name of the Councell to the House; the one for the taking off of Tythes; and the other for the repealing of the statutes for the banishment of the Jews in regard it was not held fit to mention them in the Agreement.
By the first section of Article 9 of the Agreement. The question of the existence of an Established Church was one of the chief causes of division amongst the Independent party. It led to the dissolution of the Little Parliament in 1653, and produced a permanent breach between Cromwell and many persons, officers of the army and Independent ministers, who had hitherto been his strongest supporters. See Masson, Life of Milton, iv., 513-518.
The first twenty lines of Ireton's speech substantially anticipate the explanation of the Agreement given to Parliament in the "Humble Petition of the Army," presented with it. Old Parliamentary History, xviii., 516-519. That document says:
"To prevent misunderstanding of our intentions therein, we have but this to say: That we are far from such a spirit, as positively to impose our apprehensions upon the judgments of any in the kingdom, that have not forfeited their freedom, and much less upon yourselves. . . . We humbly desire, That whether it shall be fully approved by you and received by the people, as it now stands, or not, it may yet remain upon Record before you, a perpetual witness of our real intentions and utmost endeavours for a sound and equal settlement; and as a testimony whereby all men may be assured what we are willing and ready to acquiesce in; and their jealousies satisfied or months stopt, who are apt to think or say, we have no bottom."
The tenth Article, quoted on p. 156.
i.e. You can argue if you like that we have not sufficiently diminished the power of future governments, but you cannot fairly argue we are setting up new powers.
"them," i.e. the nation.
The order of the clauses has been altered.
Erbury wants to have an immediate removal of the grievances of the nation effected by means of a committee of a few officers and "faithful persons."
Erbury, to use a modern phrase, demanded social reforms, and refused to be satisfied with improvements in the machinery of government. The Agreement had specified 400 as the number of members to sit in future parliaments. The proposal to entrust power to a small body appears again in 1653. Cromwell and his fellow officers urged the Rump "to devolve their trust over to some well-affected men such as had an interest in the nation and were known to be of good affection to the Commonwealth, which we told them was no new thing when this land was under the like hurlyburlies." (Carlyle's Cromwell, Speech I.). So too Lambert, after the expulsion of the Rump, "moved that a few persons not exceeding the number of ten or twelve might be trusted with the supreme power."
MS. "to Agreement in itt that they."
Erbury's argument is that the Army is as lawful an authority as any of the Parliaments to be called under the Agreement.
"All of them," i.e. all the articles of the Agreement.
"The Lords met this day in Court, and adjourned till to-morrow morning.
"Some of the most rigid Presbyterian Ministers desired (in respect some Officers of the Army had formerly desired a meeting with them, to dispute the Legality of their present proceedings, and having failed the said Officers at that time) that his Excellency would be pleased to give Order for some Officers to give them a meeting this Afternoon, at three of the clock at his Excellencies own house; which granted, they met accordingly, none being admitted to come into the Room, but such as were appointed to dispute the business. Some general Arguments were then insisted on for about two or three hours. The Officers of the Army prest for particulars to be insisted on, to the end they might come to the depth of the Arguments, and a clear satisfaction therein: the Ministers desired another time for that business, which was granted accordingly. The Officers desiring a day weekly to argue particulars with them." The Moderate, Jun. 9-16, 1649.
"itt," i.e. the weaker brother's burden.
Harrison's speech should be read with the address prefixed to the Agreement of the People, which he paraphrases in parts. Old Parliamentary History, xviii., 516-9. "We resolved," he says, "that since God had put this power in our hands we would put on record our views of what the terms of the settlement of the nation should be, but that we would not attempt to impose our private views, and 'settle this or that or anything which might be of concernment to others;' nor would we make use of the opportunity to perpetuate our own dominion and keep power in our own hands. On the contrary we resolved to return power as soon as possible into the hands of the people and their representatives in parliament, and content ourselves with merely recommending our scheme of settlement."
The position of this clause has been altered.
These words given in inverted commas represent the opinion of worldlings on the motives which had led the Army to seize power.
The Perfect Diurnal says, under 13 Jan.: "This day the General Councell of the Army met at Whitehall, with an intention to have subscribed the Agreement, but (some other affairs intervening) it was put off till Monday, against which time a Declaration to be published with the Agreement then read, was ordered to be in readiness." The Declaration was passed on Jan. 15 and the Agreement presented on Jan. 20. Rushworth, vii., 1391, 1392.